Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[Jack Burton]

https://berwickrangers.com/colts-proposal-statement/
Berwick Rangers breaking it down.

1. The proposal being made is for a one season deal, with no commitment or obligation to ongoing inclusion of Colts teams.
2. If successful, the proposal could not impact the promotion or relegation process. Both Colts sides would be exempt from promotion and relegation. Upon completion of the season, their respective positions in the final table would simply be removed.
3. Each Colts team would pay an entry fee of £25,000 to the league. The proposal indicates that this injection of an unconditional sum would be reinvested within the Lowland League.
4. One of the main anticipated benefits outlined by the proposal is the expected increase in exposure for the Lowland League, something that the league itself would look to harness to create new sponsorship deals which would in turn trickle down into further financial benefit for participating clubs.
5. The introduction of both Colts sides for one season would create two extra home games for each league club. This would provide additional direct revenue for Lowland League sides. 

So they are in the standings but not? [emoji848] Basically the OF's way to say how good their kids are and deserve a proper place in the pyramid then.
The LL haven't even confirmed the money would get split evenly between the LL clubs.

Reading that would suggest that league points can be earned from the games against the Colt sides or will that also be removed?

It fly in the face of the it will have no impact on promotion, relegation or the pyramid.

[Jerry Macguire]

1 minute ago, Jack Burton said:

Reading that would suggest that league points can be earned from the games against the Colt sides or will that also be removed?

It fly in the face of the it will have no impact on promotion, relegation or the pyramid.

My understanding is that if in the unlikely event a colts side finishes top of the league then it’s the next eligible member club that will go into the promotion playoff.  I assume something similar would be in place if a colts team found themselves bottom of the league at the end of the season. It would be the next eligible member club that would be relegated.

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said:

This is a one season only proposal, an invitation if you like. The Colts teams have no long term ambitions to play in the Lowland League.

 

2 hours ago, Jerry Macguire said:

The proposal clearly states its for 1 season only. I'd imagine it's a stop gap until a more permanent solution can be found. Sorry I'm not great with conspiracy theories I can only speak about what is in front of me and it clearly states its for one season only.

 

43 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

 

However, I still don’t think it’s valid to boil this down to “it won’t just be for one year though”. You’re making assumptions based on supposition, not evidence.

I am now open to bids for these fine miracle legumes.

[RedEd]

7 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

My understanding is that if in the unlikely event a colts side finishes top of the league then it’s the next eligible member club that will go into the promotion playoff.  I assume something similar would be in place if a colts team found themselves bottom of the league at the end of the season. It would be the next eligible member club that would be relegated.

Why should the SPFL accept that when Stranraer Reserves weren't able to take part in a promotion play-off with the EoS champions, and the second placed team in the SoS weren't allowed to play in it instead?

[Gordon EF]

9 minutes ago, RedEd said:

Why should the SPFL accept that when Stranraer Reserves weren't able to take part in a promotion play-off with the EoS champions, and the second placed team in the SoS weren't allowed to play in it instead?

At the very minimum, after this year's farce, I'd expect the SPFL to tighten up the rules about what constitutes a "champion club".

I say "expect"... no doubt they won't, but they should. If they can't outright deny promotion to the LL then at least make them run the risk of nobody getting a play-off spot if one of the colts wins the league.

[MAC THE KNIFE]

COLTS TEAMS PUT REAL TEAMS OUT OF THE CUPS &  VERY OFTEN THE COLTS PARENTS DONT EVEN GO TO THE MATCH EVEN IF IT IS A SATURDAY & CLOSE BY. THEY WOULD BE TREATED AS RESERVE TEAM BY OF . WHAT CHANCE HAVE SHIRE OR VALE OF LEITHEN GOT AGAINST THE LIKES OF THE SUPERSTAR GRUESOME TWOSOME PLAYERS RECOVERING FROM INJURY ? U WANT TO SEE UR TEAM HUMPED 15-0 BY THEIR TEAMS WHO BE LUCKY TO GET OUT OF 2nd GEAR ? WILL THE SFA IGNORE ANY YELLOW/RED CARDS GIVEN OUT TO NON OF PLAYERS WHEN CALCULATING SUSPENSIONS ?  

[Marshmallo]

Even if it is for one year (aye right) it still makes a mockery of the entire pyramid. 

[RossBFaeDundee]

The hypocrisy of anyone who slagged off Brechin for trying to aid their own club by appealing for OF colts but suddenly take interest in colts being brought into their league when 3 grand is put on the table is unreal.

[The Moonster]

36 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

You make very good points and I don't know what if any real benefits will come from this. I do know if its only £3k for each club then it will definitely be a waste of time. Sponsors, prize money if they can open those doors that's another thing entirely. I do think the standard of player they have in their B teams is far higher than many are giving them credit for though. Ultimately the clubs will decide and I'm happy with whatever they decide. Obviously I'm not as passionate about the whole idea as some.

I think this sort of lax attitude towards colt teams is a huge problem. You admit you can't really see the benefits, "maybe sponsors or prize money" comes across as extremely gullible, but even if it meant an extra £10-15-20K for your club, is it really worth it? How much money is your competition worth to you? Is £20K worth having every other club in the country take a pop at you? Is it worth potentially removing your entire league from the pyramid?

[Gordon EF]

7 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

The hypocrisy of anyone who slagged off Brechin for trying to aid their own club by appealing for OF colts but suddenly take interest in colts being brought into their league when 3 grand is put on the table is unreal.

Thing is, is 3k per club (at most... assuming it's all divvied out) not ridiculously cheap. It's being painted as this amazing, progressive idea that will have this big impact on the quality of players Scotland produces and the OF are willing to pay..... a fucking measly £25k for it?

Edited May 6, 2021 by Gordon EF

[Jack Burton]

My understanding is that if in the unlikely event a colts side finishes top of the league then it’s the next eligible member club that will go into the promotion playoff.  I assume something similar would be in place if a colts team found themselves bottom of the league at the end of the season. It would be the next eligible member club that would be relegated.

If a Colt side wins the league then their shouldn't be any play off imo.

If the results against the Colt sides are still included in all the other teams points total then they will be having a direct impact on the league final standings even if the final Colts position doesn't matter.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I think this sort of lax attitude towards colt teams is a huge problem. You admit you can't really see the benefits, "maybe sponsors or prize money" comes across as extremely gullible, but even if it meant an extra £10-15-20K for your club, is it really worth it? How much money is your competition worth to you? Is £20K worth having every other club in the country take a pop at you? Is it worth potentially removing your entire league from the pyramid?

10k-20k. Presumably that's per club in that scenario. So 160k-320k in sponsorship/OF subsidy.

[Marshmallo]

20 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

The hypocrisy of anyone who slagged off Brechin for trying to aid their own club by appealing for OF colts but suddenly take interest in colts being brought into their league when 3 grand is put on the table is unreal.

The hypocrisy has been off the charts for years with the refusal to relegate teams from the LL while crying about the SPFL being a closed shop.

[RossBFaeDundee]

17 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Thing is, is 3k per club (at most... assuming it's all divvied out) is ridiculously cheap. It's being painted as this amazing, progressive idea that will have this big impact on the quality of players Scotland produces and the OF are willing to pay..... a fucking measly £25k for it?

It's partly why I'm so raging about this, it's tuppence to the Old Firm but apparently the LL wants to sell itself and its reputation short for it. People moaning about the use of the term 'sporting integrity', but inviting teams full of kids to come and batter them in front of the same crowd numbers and potentially ripping themselves out of the pyramid picture for 3 grand is pretty close to epitomising that imo.

Edited May 6, 2021 by RossBFaeDundee

[Dev]

2 hours ago, Jack Burton said:

If the LL is looking to expand then it should be two teams from tier 6.

Instead of the LL team playing a friendly against the Old Firm it should be a league match against one of the two new sides.

It's a real kick in the teeth for teams in tier 6 and down who have been investing in becoming licensed just for the Old Firm Colts to jump to the top of the queue.

Agreed. Just make it 18 clubs in the LL straight away then. With existing licenced clubs at Tier 6 wanting to move up to the LL, and more due in June, that's do-able with the agreement of the Tier 6 Leagues. You can bring the number up to any figure needed/wanted if that is the main priority but other games will suffer e.g. Cups.

If it is financially worthwhile to play a bunch of organised, scheduled, friendlies against two groups of 16 and 17 year olds - playing your own Under 20's against them it could be good work out for the LL lads. Watching your own youngsters take on youngsters from a full-time pro club is brilliant. It doesn't need to interfere with too many 1st team matches if the full squad is used with the Under 20's. 

There's a chance to get something out of this. Just tweak it so it fits the LL clubs. 

We've all seen what hate does. No-one needs it. Build f..king bridges instead, especially if it brings in another source of income.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I see Bonnyrigg, like Brechin, are asking for their supporters views on it.

so's Berwick Rangers etc.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Dev said:

so's Berwick Rangers etc.

Messed that up

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Jack Burton said:

Reading that would suggest that league points can be earned from the games against the Colt sides or will that also be removed?

It fly in the face of the it will have no impact on promotion, relegation or the pyramid.

If anything comes of this idea the league table/points thing has to be clear before any possible decision could be made.

[Jack Burton]

Agreed. Just make it 18 clubs in the LL straight away then. With existing licenced clubs at Tier 6 wanting to move up to the LL, and more due in June, that's do-able with the agreement of the Tier 6 Leagues. You can bring the number up to any figure needed/wanted if that is the main priority but other games will suffer e.g. Cups.
If it is financially worthwhile to play a bunch of organised, scheduled, friendlies against two groups of 16 and 17 year olds - playing your own Under 20's against them it could be good work out for the LL lads. Watching your own youngsters take on youngsters from a full-time pro club is brilliant. It doesn't need to interfere with too many 1st team matches if the full squad is used with the Under 20's. 
There's a chance to get something out of this. Just tweak it so it fits the LL clubs. 
We've all seen what hate does. No-one needs it. Build f..king bridges instead, especially if it brings in another source of income.

The Berwick Rangers statement suggests that league points will be up for grabs when playing the Colt sides so unlikely the LL clubs will put a weak team.

I also very much doubt the Old Firm would agree to it if it means their Colts will be playing the under 20 teams from the LL clubs.

[Dev]

7 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Messed that up

Yes. That's always a problem when you post straight after seeing the initial post. Then you go back to see that some-one has already flagged up the info.