Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[Spyro]

Did we really learn absolutely nothing from the European Super League fiasco? This is absolutely brutal btw

[Gordon EF]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

Perhaps it is naive but what is certain is to extend  beyond next season will require the member clubs to vote on it. If it doesn’t offer them any value as many are suggesting based on friendlies or playing in the chocolate biscuit cup, after 1 season they will know for certain if it was a worthwhile exercise.

It's the thin edge of the wedge though. They're clearly hoping that there'll be enough "Rangers men" in enough LL boardrooms or enough who're desperate enough for a meagre payout to keep it going until any opposition dies down. Not for it to continue on it's own merit.

[Jerry Macguire]

7 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Im sorry, im sure youre a nice person and youre clearly passionate about your team but you need to get a grip. Your post is one of the most ignorant misguided posts ive ever read on this entire website. 
‘Its one season only’ get a grip. 
It is about sporting integrity, its everything about it, if OF want their *colt* teams (im sorry im shuddering even typing that word because its just americanisation pish) to play a lowland league team every week they can play a friendly on a tuesday night. Its a massive 2’s up to the integrity of the Scottish Football Pyramid. 
‘so what they’ve spent money upgrading facilities’ - yes money spent in good faith as the only method of progression into the pyramid apparently, but hey now you can just spend £25,000 and get in which is a damn sight less than most clubs have spent on facilities. How much have BSC spent on their stadium? 
‘Standard of opponent and stadia’ - gies piece, theres plenty clubs in the wosl who would absolutely spank your lot. Have you any idea how conceited that sounds? Also, go to Meadow, Holm Park, Buffs, Lok, Arthurlie, Neilston, Carluke, Newmains, Albert, anywhere in the WosL at any level of it and you have changing rooms, decent playing surface (vale of leven have a brilliant surface for one). Go to Ants and you’ll meet some of the most dedicated football people in the business, always looking to treat away teams brilliantly, Mckenna park is a great place to visit at any level of the game). Youre talking like its the premier league first teamers coming along and not a crowd of teenagers who didnt make the grade at Hamilton or another real academy. Even if it was the first team players, if they cant play football on a cold windy night at Winton Rovers (albeit in a cracking wee venue that they are rightly proud of) then they aren’t footballers. 
How does a B team that attracted about 100 fans ‘bring exposure’ utter nonsense. Even if Rangers or Celtic were at the same ballpark as Barcelona reserves its not even remotely the same thing. 
People like me and many others support our clubs partly because we detest what the old firm does to people, has done to Scottish football and the legacy THEY have created in the game. Scottish football is shite and at the highest level its shite because the OF outspent and ruined the competition using dodgy loans or pandering to bigotry with colourful strips that appealed the dregs of society, get that to f**k in any shape or form from local community clubs who are a fucking asset to their area, buses full of arseholes travelling all over Scotland to go watch the OF should be a source of national embarrassment. 
Old firm fans are nothing but a number to them, a source of income, Old firm youth programs are nothing but an attempt to snuff out competition, buying out all the promising youths and abandoning them because they are 2” shorter than the sport scientists say they need to be. To think the LL would be anything more than another disposable ‘thing’ to the OF to use as a wee toy is misguided at best and more likely selfless arrogance. 
Your post is in my view the biggest heel turn since Hulk Hogan. 

 I gave an opinion in what I though was a considered and respectful manner. Whilst I appreciate and respect your right to disagree with that opinion that doesn’t give you the right to personally attack me with such abusive and aggressive language. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, Jerry Macguire said:

 I gave an opinion in what I though was a considered and respectful manner. Whilst I appreciate and respect your right to disagree with that opinion that doesn’t give you the right to personally attack me with such abusive and aggressive language. 

Gie yerself a break ‘abusive’? No abuse contained in my post whatsoever, if you cant take being called out for posting conceited drivel then dont post it, but dont cry abuse just because you know you got it wrong. 

[Jack Burton]

This all kicked off with the OF wanting to take full part in the SPFL e.g. as teams 11 and 12 in SPFL2 with promotion and relegation etc. There might be an alternative which could work for everyone.
With the SPFL2 having10 clubs then the OF pair could be added on to them to play organised matches which do not count towards the League Tables. There'd be no promotion or relegation for them. They'd not play in any of the Cup competitions. If the pair turned out to be so good then they could be moved as a pair to Div.1 and the same done there with the usual promotion and relegation going on separately. 
The same idea could equally apply to the LL if the SPFL wouldn't take them in.
None of this would affect any Pyramid club in any way except that they'd be guaranteed two home "friendlies" against OF sides each season.
If, in due course, the OF pair had a change of heart about playing these matches then they could withdraw and it would make no difference at all to any Pyramid club - except loss of a couple of regular contacts with the "Big Two" clubs. There-again that's of little value so it wouldn't matter anyway - or does it?

If the LL is looking to expand then it should be two teams from tier 6.

Instead of the LL team playing a friendly against the Old Firm it should be a league match against one of the two new sides.

It's a real kick in the teeth for teams in tier 6 and down who have been investing in becoming licensed just for the Old Firm Colts to jump to the top of the queue.

[Spyro]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

...that doesn’t give you the right to personally attack me with such abusive and aggressive language. 

Where? Sorry but I’m not seeing it myself, it really is “one of the most ignorant misguided posts ive ever read on this entire website. 
‘Its one season only’ get a grip.” Is a fair comment IMO 

[Jerry Macguire]

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

It's the thin edge of the wedge though. They're clearly hoping that there'll be enough "Rangers men" in enough LL boardrooms or enough who're desperate enough for a meagre payout to keep it going until any opposition dies down. Not for it to continue on it's own merit.

Or Celtic men. Who knows Gordon and you may be right. Everyone may be right and I might be completely wrong. But what is striking about this is the amount of abuse and hatred this is generating. Even before anyone knew what the proposal was. We all like to think we’re better than them because we’re real football fans supporting what they call diddy teams. Fact is for the most part we’re just as close minded as they are. I’m okay with being wrong so whatever way clubs vote I won’t be abusing anyone over it or completely losing my shit like some on here are. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Care to point out what aspect of anyones post is abusive? Calling you ignorant or having a conceited view isnt abuse, how do you function in the real world if thats what you consider abusive? Your post was genuinely one of the worst non political takes ive ever read on here and I pointed out quite methodically where you got it wrong. 
 

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Jerry Macguire said:

Or Celtic men. Who knows Gordon and you may be right. Everyone may be right and I might be completely wrong. But what is striking about this is the amount of abuse and hatred this is generating. Even before anyone knew what the proposal was. We all like to think we’re better than them because we’re real football fans supporting what they call diddy teams. Fact is for the most part we’re just as close minded as they are. I’m okay with being wrong so whatever way clubs vote I won’t be abusing anyone over it or completely losing my shit like some on here are. 

Aye, or "Celtic men".  For some reason it always seems to be the 'staunch' types that get involved with their 'wee teams' for though. Beside the point though.

It does generate a lot of emotion when this comes up. Because people are passionate, not just about their clubs and not just Scottish football but about 'lower league football' (where you want to make that cut off is up for debate. You could say it's everything outside the Premier). The colt idea more or less goes against everything that's supposed to be and everything the pyramid is supposed to represent. It is 100% about benefitting two big clubs at the expense of lower league football as a competition. Yes, they're offering to pay clubs off and I can understand why some clubs are attracted by that or buy into the pish they spout about colts.

This is not about improving Scottish football, the national team, being progressive, or improving the Lowland League. It is 100% about benefitting the OF. Now, if you're an OF supporter, I can understand that. But why someone who isn't would come out toeing the party line about this is extremely difficult to understand. Some folk will get frustrated by that. Some will suspect ulterior motives.

[craigkillie]

13 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

 I gave an opinion in what I though was a considered and respectful manner. Whilst I appreciate and respect your right to disagree with that opinion that doesn’t give you the right to personally attack me with such abusive and aggressive language. 

There is nothing abusive or aggressive in that post. You had already lost the argument intellectually, and you have now lost it morally by trying to claim abuse where there is none.

We get that BSC Glasgow and their handful of supporters and employees are trying to stick up for their chairman's pathetic idea, but at least take a step back and realise how ridiculous you sound to everyone else.

[The Moonster]

10 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

Everyone may be right and I might be completely wrong. But what is striking about this is the amount of abuse and hatred this is generating. 

Every other club in the country has been fighting against this, laughing the OF out the office and slapping away their attempted blackmail payments for years and the Lowland League clubs are opening their legs wide at the first derisory offer thrown forward. Anyone who has read George Frasers statement is right to feel angry about this and the proposal is completely laughable and unnecessary, if they want to play friendlies for a year there is nothing stopping them doing that, they can pay your clubs directly and do that without being given a place in the pyramid. 

For years clubs at Lowland League/junior level have bemoaned how senior clubs only care about cash, and here you are dropping your drawers for three fucking grand each. The "oh lets hear what they've got to say" pish is adding credibility to a debate that nobody wants. You deserve every bit of abuse that comes your way. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by The Moonster

[Jerry Macguire]

8 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

 I gave an opinion in what I though was a considered and respectful manner. Whilst I appreciate and respect your right to disagree with that opinion that doesn’t give you the right to personally attack me with such abusive and aggressive language. 

 

6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Gie yerself a break ‘abusive’? No abuse contained in my post whatsoever, if you cant take being called out for posting conceited drivel then dont post it, but dont cry abuse just because you know you got it wrong. 

It’s not very respectful though you can at least admit that.

13 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

Your post is in my view the biggest heel turn since Hulk Hogan. 

 

11 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

the most ignorant misguided posts ive ever read on this entire website. 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

One of the annoying things about this, is that if LL clubs want a boost in attendances they'd more likely get it from the clubs coming up from Tier 6 and even down from the SPFL. Since they have strong fan bases that are more accustomed to travelling at this level of football. Especially for the novelty of it.

Bonnyrigg's headcounts in 2019-20 largely saw 3 figure increases over the host club's league average. For some reason it was only D&G that put them off.

Att.		Lge Av.	+/-
1,510	@ Kelty Hearts	500	1,010
452	@ Berwick Rangers	348	104
347	@ Spartans	175	172
339	@ BSC Glasgow	114	225
315	@ Cumbernauld Colts	129	186
275	@ Civil Service Strollers	132	143
249	@ Edinburgh University	107	142
203	@ Gala FR	142	61
127	@ Vale of Leithen	86	41
126	@ Dalbeattie Star	131	-5
111	@ Gretna 2008	124	-13

[drs]

48 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

That's a real shame that your hatred for 2 clubs is more important to you than your love of 1.

I'm not sure how you can extrapolate "hatred" from what I actually posted.

I'd be anti this utterly stupid proposal if the 2 teams were Hearts and Hibs, Kilmarnock and St Mirren or Livingston and Hamilton.  The entire principle is nonsense.

Edited May 6, 2021 by drs

[Jerry Macguire]

6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Care to point out what aspect of anyones post is abusive? Calling you ignorant or having a conceited view isnt abuse, how do you function in the real world if thats what you consider abusive? Your post was genuinely one of the worst non political takes ive ever read on here and I pointed out quite methodically where you got it wrong. 
 

Okay I get it you don’t agree with me. Move on.

[Spyro]

Nobody is abusing anyone!

We are standing up for the clubs in Scotland who haven’t yet being infected by the nonsense and self-importance of the 2 big Glasgow teams who have ruined our top league game over many years.

Maybe take a step back and look at how this looks to a non-OF supporting viewpoint and understand where the anger comes  from.

I certainly have nothing against you personally and I’m sure the others posting don’t either, but you have got this terribly wrong in our (and many other’s) eyes. Calling it abuse is a little disheartening as it’s sign of a trench-mentally and it’s time to put the shovel down and re-evaluate what football at this level means to people... we don’t give a sh!t what Andy Walker or Sky Sports have to say on what is football, this is Scotland and REAL football without the nonsense.

[Dundee Hibernian]

The standard of player who would be turning out for OF Colts is not of importance: getting the feet in the door is where it’s at. As many recognise, keeping a presence in Scotland if the Glasgow two manage to get into a super league system elsewhere is the sole objective.

For an Ibrox Colt side, if this materialises it would be the second time the organisation has leapfrogged more qualified sides to take up a position in the system.

Ironically, the pyramid set up was initially a behind the door arrangement put forward in 2012 to placate ambitious clubs who may have been irate at the new Rangers side being given preferential treatment and a place in the fourth tier.

[Jerry Macguire]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

There is nothing abusive or aggressive in that post. You had already lost the argument intellectually, and you have now lost it morally by trying to claim abuse where there is none.

We get that BSC Glasgow and their handful of supporters and employees are trying to stick up for their chairman's pathetic idea, but at least take a step back and realise how ridiculous you sound to everyone else.

I gave an opinion and people don’t agree. Genuinely I’m okay with that. I’m not in it to win any arguments intellectually or otherwise. I don’t know if this will work but I’m open minded enough to at least consider the possibility.

[RossBFaeDundee]

Let me tell you, I just love the suggestion that despite games involving 3rd and 4th tier teams having no attendance spikes and even some with lower than average attendances in the Challenge Cup, that OF supporters will come out in droves to watch the kids teams playing 5th tier opposition in what are apparently 'glorified friendlies'.

Love it, very funny.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

5 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

 

It’s not very respectful though you can at least admit that.

 

 

Was a fan of a club without any facilities making a snidey point about clubs further down the pyramid improving their facilities respectful? 
Youre absolutely right in the latter post we definitely dont agree, but the whole point of a forum is discussion, I get youre probably feeling a bit under pressure because of your staggeringly awful take earlier and that’s ok, its human nature and if you dont want to engage then nae bother. 
I had a great deal of respect for you up until today as a supporter of a small team etc and im sorry but that has just eroded entirely. Same with the respect I had for George Fraser.  Good luck to your club should you allow the bigot brothers into your league, I know i’ll boycott any game involving BSC in future.