Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[johnmc80]

My team lost its place in the spfl due to corruption and greed. We regrouped started in the junior leagues, built our infrastructure, built a community asset from the grass roots, a full academy, fought for better facilities and board members burst their arses to get us into the WoSL and approved for SFA licensing. Started from nothing and being jumped by the two clubs in Scotland who are responsible for just about everything thats wrong with Scottish Football with their glory hunter fans, bigotry, entitlement, investing in foreign duds and now they just get their way yet again. Absolutely cringing for Fraser and the LL board etc crying about sporting integrity yet allowing the ugly sisters to jump 100’s of other clubs. Where’s the sporting integrity there George? You just a wee bit worried looking back at Talbot, Pollok, Bankies, Troon, Buffs and Darvel etc? 
3 feeder leagues and 1 promotion place yet this mob are being parachuted in for ‘1 year’ aye sporting integrity. 

This post sums up perfectly, everything that has to be said on the matter.
Anyone who has posted on here over the years about the spfl 2 being a closed shop, with no automatic relegation, but is now backing the colts to join the league at the expense of teams in the tier bellow, are being massive hypocites.
Would not be a good look for the league at all.

[craigiemack]

A Shire director just said that he thinks it'll get voted through because some teams will go for the money and I honestly can't disagree. I'd hope that the bigger teams with fan pressure will vote against it but I suspect the diddy teams like edufrance, broomhill boys club and the unis would go for it. It pretty much puts the decision of the vote into the hands of teams like Civil, Gala, Cumbernauld etc.

Whatever happens it's been an absolute PR disaster. The league has difficulty gaining credibility at times and this is certainly not going to help. I have literally no idea what George Fraser was even thinking and why he thought that people wouldn't react the way they did. Maybe he was forced into it or had extra relegation places dangled in front of him idk but imo his position as chairman of the league is pretty much unattainable.

Furthermore I'm really really disappointed in how the LL catch-up reacted. Their coverage of the league is the best out there and they always try fight the corner of the league but all of their posts just scream sooking up their pal Fraser's arse. They're a voice for the fans so why don't they stand up for the fans and make it known that nobody in this league that's not a bigot brother without the bus fare wants this shite anywhere near our league. 

[Dev]

This all kicked off with the OF wanting to take full part in the SPFL e.g. as teams 11 and 12 in SPFL2 with promotion and relegation etc. There might be an alternative which could work for everyone.

With the SPFL2 having10 clubs then the OF pair could be added on to them to play organised matches which do not count towards the League Tables. There'd be no promotion or relegation for them. They'd not play in any of the Cup competitions. If the pair turned out to be so good then they could be moved as a pair to Div.1 and the same done there with the usual promotion and relegation going on separately. 

The same idea could equally apply to the LL if the SPFL wouldn't take them in.

None of this would affect any Pyramid club in any way except that they'd be guaranteed two home "friendlies" against OF sides each season.

If, in due course, the OF pair had a change of heart about playing these matches then they could withdraw and it would make no difference at all to any Pyramid club - except loss of a couple of regular contacts with the "Big Two" clubs. There-again that's of little value so it wouldn't matter anyway - or does it?

Edited May 6, 2021 by Dev
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[Fifes Elite Force]

I hope this doesn't go ahead.

Out of interest has there ever been a reason if Celtic and Rangers want to give their players experience of first team football what the problem with loan system is? As I understand it if they went to a part time club they would still train with their parent club mostly and then play competitive games at their feeder club.

[G51]

 

 

 

 

[EdinburghBlue]

12 minutes ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

I hope this doesn't go ahead.

Out of interest has there ever been a reason if Celtic and Rangers want to give their players experience of first team football what the problem with loan system is? As I understand it if they went to a part time club they would still train with their parent club mostly and then play competitive games at their feeder club.

They obviously feel that they need the competitive advantage this will bring them over the Aberdeens. Hibernians, etc of this world who’re breathing down their necks and endangering their God-given right to share all the spoils of Scottish football.  

[Gordon EF]

22 minutes ago, craigiemack said:

A Shire director just said that he thinks it'll get voted through because some teams will go for the money and I honestly can't disagree. I'd hope that the bigger teams with fan pressure will vote against it but I suspect the diddy teams like edufrance, broomhill boys club and the unis would go for it. It pretty much puts the decision of the vote into the hands of teams like Civil, Gala, Cumbernauld etc.

Whatever happens it's been an absolute PR disaster. The league has difficulty gaining credibility at times and this is certainly not going to help. I have literally no idea what George Fraser was even thinking and why he thought that people wouldn't react the way they did. Maybe he was forced into it or had extra relegation places dangled in front of him idk but imo his position as chairman of the league is pretty much unattainable.

Furthermore I'm really really disappointed in how the LL catch-up reacted. Their coverage of the league is the best out there and they always try fight the corner of the league but all of their posts just scream sooking up their pal Fraser's arse. They're a voice for the fans so why don't they stand up for the fans and make it known that nobody in this league that's not a bigot brother without the bus fare wants this shite anywhere near our league. 

Bizarre stuff coming from them "this would be acceptable if it opens up more relegation/promotion at the bottom of the LL".

Do folk understand these two things are completely unrelated. Anyone can support increased promotion into the LL and clubs can easily vote in favour of that without bending over for the Bigot Babies.

[Fifes Elite Force]

3 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

They obviously feel that they need the competitive advantage this will bring them over the Aberdeens. Hibernians, etc of this world who’re breathing down their necks and endangering their God-given right to share all the spoils of Scottish football.  

Perhaps, but they arn't gong to come out with that.

I'm wondering if they have given any sort of reason why publicly?

[Pyramidic]

The way that this issue has emerged without proper consultation with the football community is disturbing to say the least. If the proposal has to go through there should be a “sweetener “ to soften the blow by establishing TWO relegation places from the Lowland League so that the pyramid can function more effectively.

I think that George Fraser has a moral obligation to the football community to instigate and promote this change in light of the outlandish tinkering with pyramid system that he is overseeing to accommodate the Old Firm.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Pyramidic

[MAC THE KNIFE]

LET THEM JOIN THE WEST SCOTLAND LGE OR EAST SCO LEAGUE WITH NO PROMOTION. NO COLTS IN LOWLAND LEAGUE

[Born To Run]

36 minutes ago, craigiemack said:

Furthermore I'm really really disappointed in how the LL catch-up reacted. Their coverage of the league is the best out there and they always try fight the corner of the league but all of their posts just scream sooking up their pal Fraser's arse. They're a voice for the fans so why don't they stand up for the fans and make it known that nobody in this league that's not a bigot brother without the bus fare wants this shite anywhere near our league. 

Chris put out a deliberately balanced point of view last night because all three of us have differing opinions. We’ll be recording a proper reaction at some point this week which should cover all bases.

Safe to say that your point of view will be represented!

[Marten]

6 minutes ago, Born To Run said:

Chris put out a deliberately balanced point of view last night because all three of us have differing opinions. We’ll be recording a proper reaction at some point this week which should cover all bases.

Safe to say that your point of view will be represented!

It shouldn't be debated, there shouldn't be talks about it. It should just not be done, end of.

[The Moonster]

2 hours ago, geo87 said:

 

 

Deary fucking me.

I have been a massive supporter of BSC and EK and think the game can only benefit from these “progressive” clubs.

Appreciate Aitken might not echo the thoughts of the EK board, but if them and BSC are the driving force behind this they can both get fucked.

You’d have to imagine they are fairly intelligent people behind the scenes of these clubs, after watching the super league fiasco how can they misjudge supporters feeling towards this? Even George Fraser putting out that statement shows he is completely out of touch or doesn’t care (not sure what one is worse). That statement, regardless of it getting approved will have lost the LL so much support and goodwill after years of upwards trajectory.
 

 

 

There are two things that are certainties here:

1. Stevie Aitken is a huge Rangers man.
2. There is not a football matter that passes by that Stevie Aitken will not make comment on in the papers.

A horrible wee toad. 

[Born To Run]

4 minutes ago, andrew21 said:

Do Bo'ness get a vote in this ?  Or is it like the EOS league where they have to wait until a year from when they entered to get a say.?

All league members, including Bo’ness, get a vote.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, andrew21 said:

Nobody has said that isn't going to happen. George Fraser stated on a recent podcast that opening up the Lowland league should happen, would be a bit hypocritical if he is saying different things to different audiences. 

"As always league integrity and the importance of the pyramid will be paramount and this will be unaffected by this plan "

 

The way it's being painted is that the OF will be ran as 'silent' teams where results won't count towards the Lowland League. They'd just be scheduled into the fixture calendar giving teams 34 games instead of 30.

If that's the case all the teams that don't want to participate should be allowed to opt out of the agreement. The OF can play the x amount of clubs left over that are willing to leach an existence off the OF's pennies.

[Gordon EF]

Firstly, if anyone thinks the end game here is for this to be a one-off, they're having a fucking laugh. Reading Fraser's statement, he's just regurgitating this pish about colts being "progressive" and offering a "player pathway" etc. If he'd just come out and said, "we're all fucking skint and as BSC chairman I'm that hard up I'll accept a 3 grand pay off to let the colts play some training games against LL teams", that would be one thing, but he didn't. He clearly wants the colts in permanently.

That being the case, is there any scenario where that doesn't completely harden the SPFL's stance on opening up more promotion into the SPFL? SPFL clubs and SPFL supporters have repeatedly rejected the idea of playing against colt sides. Absolutely nobody in the lower leagues is going to even consider the idea of increasing the chances of ending up in a league with colt teams because their own supporters would fucking hate it.

Even if the SPFL don't vote to prevent any movement with the LL at all, this will essentially lock out the possibility of any increased promotion out of the LL for the foreseeable future because SPFL clubs will be even more against the idea of ending up in the LL than they are now. No matter how good a league it becomes (apart from the colts) or how attractive it might look once the bigger ex-juniors filter in.

And it'll be easy to justify because the LL will have surrendered any 'moral high ground' they ever had on the issue.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Gordon EF

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Thing is, there's a debate to be had about Colt teams place in the Pyramid (many will be anti, many will be pro).  Hibs and Berwick have recently had reserve sides in the EoS, Edinburgh City tried this season but ground issues put paid to that before it went to a vote. Stanraer Reserves are in the SoS.

There's a proper way to go about entering the senior league system and that is applying like any other club for admission to a particular league.  In the case of these two, that is applying to the WoS and starting at the bottom tier - if accepted/wanted.

Parachuting them straight into a higher level has zero integrity and zero respect for the Pyramid/Clubs.

Yep, if colt teams are getting into the pyramid then certain conditions should be obvious.

1. They start at the bottom of the pyramid. Arguments about the quality of facilities are nonsense - the ground standards in the WoSL and EoSL are fine, I'm sure others at this level will follow similar standards and the development teams don't play at licensed grounds now anyway. Dundee Utd played at St Andrew's Uni where there's not even a rope between fans and the pitch and they have to walk a few hundred yards from the changing rooms.
2. There's no cash changing hands. Taking a bung to change your vote on what should be a matter of sporting integrity is pathetic behaviour. You either vote for it because you think it's a good idea, or you don't.
3. It has to be open to every single team in the pyramid. If Dundonald Bluebell want to enter their U20s in the EoS then they should be allowed to, provided they're not in the same division. There's nothing magical about the OF and they absolutely do not dominate youth football anyway. Neither have a greater claim to a place in the pyramid than Hamilton Accies.

I'm not saying I want it to happen like that btw, just that these are the minimum requirements.

[Benidorm]

Unfortunately I think this has a chance of going through. There are still too many turbo diddies in the LL just now chasing a quick payday of any kind without the setup to get higher up the pyramid and know as the ambitious clubs with desire to progress come up from the E/WOS they will drop. Not enough Keltys, Bonnyriggs, Bo'ness, Berwicks around just now to block this. 

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, andrew21 said:

Surely the money they got from gubbing East Fife isn't gone already.

I imagine it probably is because they rent a ground and have a handful of supporters.

[LongTimeLurker]

11 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I imagine it probably is because they rent a ground and have a handful of supporters.

It's ludicrous that BSC Glasgow are allowed to play in Alloa for years on end without developing a ground of their own in their own area.

What's particularly galling about this announcement though is that they prefer to push an old firm colts team plan rather than invite applications from below from newly licensed clubs like Clydebank that missed out on promotion this year through no fault of their own.

Expanding to 18 that way could have been used as the prelude to promotion and relegation being expanded to two clubs rather than one. Problem with that though is that it halves the time needed for recently licensed former junior clubs to empty out all the former boys clubs and pre-2015 EoS and SoS clubs.

Edited May 6, 2021 by LongTimeLurker