Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[Marten]

Wow, I have been out most of yesterday and I'm only now catching up with the news... Quite a bit to catch up with!

I have made my opposition to colt teams clear on P&B various times. I couldn't be more angry about this. A lot of pain has gone into getting a pyramid to cover all of Scotland. Lots of accusations have been thrown around, lots of difficult discussions. Regardless of what your stance on any of this is, now the pyramid is finally taking shape it's time to move on and bury the past. Scottish non-league needs to move on together. To then have this as a unilateral move really sh!ts all over the "sporting integrity" that the LL themselves has been talking about so much.

Get it in the sea.

[Dunning1874]

I've been a critic of the SPFL's reluctance to open up the bottom of League Two and much of their general conduct towards the Highland & Lowland Leagues - the reported blackmail over the boundary and League Cup places for example was a disgrace. However any moral high ground the Lowland League ever had has just disappeared overnight, and they'll never have a shred of goodwill or credibility again as long as George Fraser has any influence.

The only acceptable response to this being implemented next season would be to immediately suspend the Lowland League's access to the pyramid. Put the Highland League winners directly into the playoff with Club 42 and if the Lowland League don't relent over future years look at new alternative league covering the same region that tier 6 clubs can get access to where they won't have the queue jumped for the sake of 30 pieces of silver. Lowland League clubs can choose between a glorified reserve league or a place in the pyramid; it's one or the other.

Even if this is voted down, Fraser has to go. Absolutely despicable behaviour.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Dunning1874

[Shannon]

I've been a critic of the SPFL's reluctance to open up the bottom of League Two and much of their general conduct towards the Highland & Lowland Leagues - the reported blackmail over the boundary and League Cup places for example was a disgrace. However any moral high ground the Lowland League ever had has just disappeared overnight, and they'll never have a shred of goodwill or credibility again as long as George Fraser has any influence.
The only acceptable response to this being implemented next season would be to immediately suspend the Lowland League's access to the pyramid. Put the Highland League winners directly into the playoff with Club 42 and if the Lowland League don't relent over future years look at new alternative league covering the same region that tier 6 clubs can get access to where they won't have the queue jumped for the sake of 30 pieces of silver. Lowland League clubs can choose between a glorified reserve league or a place in the pyramid; it's one or the other.
Even if this is voted down, Fraser has to go. Absolutely despicable behaviour.

Have the Highland League winners play off against East and West of Scotland and suspend the Lowland League and their clubs indefinitely [emoji16][emoji6]

[Burnieman]

2 minutes ago, Marten said:

Wow, I have been out most of yesterday and I'm only now catching up with the news... Quite a bit to catch up with!

I have made my opposition to colt teams clear on P&B various times. I couldn't be more angry about this. A lot of pain has gone into getting a pyramid to cover all of Scotland. Lots of accusations have been thrown around, lots of difficult discussions. Regardless of what your stance on any of this is, now the pyramid is finally taking shape it's time to move on and bury the past. Scottish non-league needs to move on together. To then have this as a unilateral move really sh!ts all over the "sporting integrity" that the LL themselves has been talking about so much.

Get it in the sea.

Thing is, there's a debate to be had about Colt teams place in the Pyramid (many will be anti, many will be pro).  Hibs and Berwick have recently had reserve sides in the EoS, Edinburgh City tried this season but ground issues put paid to that before it went to a vote. Stanraer Reserves are in the SoS.

There's a proper way to go about entering the senior league system and that is applying like any other club for admission to a particular league.  In the case of these two, that is applying to the WoS and starting at the bottom tier - if accepted/wanted.

Parachuting them straight into a higher level has zero integrity and zero respect for the Pyramid/Clubs.

[G51]

28 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The whole thing is pathetic. Some quotes from the OF when quitting the rebranded reserve league after quitting it after the first season.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17611585.rangers-celtic-set-quit-spfl-reserve-league-bid-boost-academy-teams/

Anyone think that those things will change after a year of glorified friendlies against Lowland League teams?

Nope, which is why I don’t think the proposal makes sense from the OF’s point of view.

The B team games programme that Rangers went on in 19/20 had a significantly higher level of opposition than Lowland League teams. Can only assume the team entering into the Lowland League would actually be the U18’s.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

Nope, which is why I don’t think the proposal makes sense from the OF’s point of view.

The B team games programme that Rangers went on in 19/20 had a significantly higher level of opposition than Lowland League teams. Can only assume the team entering into the Lowland League would actually be the U18’s.

That's just it. You know all the better prospects will be off on loan at various levels across the SPFL or elsewhere. So it's not even going to be 'B' teams it's more like their 'C' teams of legit kids.

[Marten]

8 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Thing is, there's a debate to be had about Colt teams place in the Pyramid (many will be anti, many will be pro).  Hibs and Berwick have recently had reserve sides in the EoS, Edinburgh City tried this season but ground issues put paid to that before it went to a vote. Stanraer Reserves are in the SoS.

There's a proper way to go about entering the senior league system and that is applying like any other club for admission to a particular league.  In the case of these two, that is applying to the WoS and starting at the bottom tier - if accepted/wanted.

Parachuting them straight into a higher level has zero integrity and zero respect for the Pyramid/Clubs.

Agreed, I'm against them in any league, I don't think this statement will surprise anyone on here! But if, big IF, they join, they have to join in the lowest tier. For the OF, that's the WOS conferences. LL shouldn't be inviting any teams to the league that haven't earned promotion on the pitch. That's just making a mockery of the pyramid.

I have no issues with friendlies between any club and a "B-team". But that should just be a friendly that's mutually agreed and be made to fit around any other commitments the club in question has. It shouldn't be organised by the LL. By all means, let BSC Glasgow (for example) play a friendly against Celtic or Rangers B on a midweek date when they don't have another game. Just like I have no issue if Lochee United does similar with a friendly against Dundee or United B, I'd have no problems attending it either. But it should go no further than that.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Marten

[Shannon]

It's really strange George Fraser talks about ventilation in the pyramid and now all of a sudden happy to have 18 teams but instead of 2 relegation spots from Lowland League and 4 clubs coming up from East & West of Scotland to make the Lowland League more competitive they sell their souls for £3,000 each with no further relegation from Lowland League. Absolute joke.

The amount of ground improvements I know my team Irvine Meadow has made and the money, time, effort and fundraising over last year is phenomenal with long term goal of progressing through the pyramid and being involved in Scottish Cup but pyramid progression now looks like a pipe dream.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Shannon said:

It's really strange George Fraser talks about ventilation in the pyramid and now all of a sudden happy to have 18 teams

I know. Can't be shocked that the pressure from the SFA to get back down to 16 like everyone else is no longer an issue.

[Dunning1874]

1 minute ago, Burnieman said:

Thing is, there's a debate to be had about Colt teams place in the Pyramid (many will be anti, many will be pro).  Hibs and Berwick have recently had reserve sides in the EoS, Edinburgh City tried this season but ground issues put paid to that before it went to a vote. Stanraer Reserves are in the SoS.

There's a proper way to go about entering the senior league system and that is applying like any other club for admission to a particular league.  In the case of these two, that is applying to the WoS and starting at the bottom tier - if accepted/wanted.

Parachuting them straight into a higher level has zero integrity and zero respect for the Pyramid/Clubs.

Yeah, this is it. I'm personally completely opposed to them being in any first team competition but you can have a honest difference of opinion about that. If the WOS were to vote to allow them then I'd disagree with it, but at least they'd be starting at the bottom level of the pyramid and working their way up, which no one could say is inherently unfair.

What the Lowland League are proposing spits in the face of the 150+ clubs in their feeder leagues.

[Gordon EF]

38 minutes ago, Ignoramus said:

Quelle surprise everyone:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/rangers-celtic-colts-would-exciting-24049218.amp?__twitter_impression=true

The stupid c**t probably thinks they'll make manager of one of the colt teams for coming away with that shite.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

15 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Thing is, there's a debate to be had about Colt teams buying a place in the Pyramid

Ftfy 

[Gordon EF]

20 minutes ago, Shannon said:

Have the Highland League winners play off against East and West of Scotland and suspend the Lowland League and their clubs indefinitely

Yep. Just posted something similar on the L1 forum. I'd be quite happy to remove the LL from the pyramid altogether if they vote for this. Move the WoSFL and EoSFL up a tier and let them compete with the HL winners for a spot in L2. It makes more sense geographically anyway. 

Let the LL become a little OF training session league if that's what they want.

[Shannon]

I know. Can't be shocked that the pressure from the SFA to get back down to 16 like everyone else is no longer an issue.

While West of Scotland are pressured into having 7 relegation spots this season to get back to 16 teams as soon as possible.

[Gordon EF]

17 minutes ago, Shannon said:

It's really strange George Fraser talks about ventilation in the pyramid and now all of a sudden happy to have 18 teams but instead of 2 relegation spots from Lowland League and 4 clubs coming up from East & West of Scotland to make the Lowland League more competitive they sell their souls for £3,000 each with no further relegation from Lowland League. Absolute joke.

The amount of ground improvements I know my team Irvine Meadow has made and the money, time, effort and fundraising over last year is phenomenal with long term goal of progressing through the pyramid and being involved in Scottish Cup but pyramid progression now looks like a pipe dream.

It makes perfect sense if you just imagine that he's a massive hypocrite.

[G51]

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

That's just it. You know all the better prospects will be off on loan at various levels across the SPFL or elsewhere. So it's not even going to be 'B' teams it's more like their 'C' teams of legit kids.

It would genuinely be a team of 16 and 17 year olds. And even then, the ones that are actually thought to be decent prospects are capable of playing at a higher level than that. A good chunk of them (Tony Weston, Aaron Cervantes, Charlie Lindsay) already have.

Don't really see how this works other than as a replacement for the U18 league.

[morley]

I don't like the idea but they should start in the WOS and go no higher than the LL. No teams should be able to jump the pyramid as challenges the whole integrity. On health and safety there is maybe a case to say they don't start at the bottom of the WOS recognising that most of the smaller clubs will be miles away from having SFA licence standard grounds and infrastructure so maybe not able to safely manage a visit from an old firm teams even if they are just colt teams.

Edited May 6, 2021 by morley

[MDM]

Quote

League chairperson, George Fraser, said:

“It is clear from the discussions we have had that both Celtic and Rangers are looking for a league to put their ‘B’ teams into where they can develop as players.  Having been on the PGB sub group tasked with further developing the well-publicised ‘Scottish Football Innovation’ paper, a project which is still on-going and may well be implemented for season 22/23, it was absolutely clear to me that there is a major gap in the player pathway which would, if not addressed, impact a generation of our best young talent.  That is why the Lowland League, as a modern progressive organisation, have identified an opportunity, and are open to embracing positive change which will have massive benefit for our own clubs and league but importantly also for the wider Scottish game.

Seems it only needed to be clear to George to get the wheels moving.  Or, perhaps George knows that the teams in the league will support the proposition?

 

On the other hand, if this is voted down then George is obviously out of touch with the teams in the league and should review his position.

 

[Gordon EF]

[Marshmallo]

Another example of bullshit "exclusives" being peddled by a podcast btw on league structure and proposals.

"We understand that..."