Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?

[ahemps]

7 hours ago, ATLIS said:

Celtic were hanging on, comfortably talking out your arse on this one

I said Celtic were an utter shambles at that time......did you beat them???????

Go on then, tell me how many players from Livi would have got in the Celtic team that night that contained: Hazard, Ralston, Bitton, Duffy, Laxalt, McGregor, Soro, Frimpong, Turnbull, Johnston, Rogic. Subs Okoflex and Henderson.

The point of my original comment was that the OF could play youth and still have more than enough to win games in Scotland. That Celtic team contains 5 players from their youth system and 1 sub player. Swap Rogic for Eduoardo and Duffy for Ajer and they win that game 9 times out of 10 even with that amount of youth players in their team.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, ahemps said:

I said Celtic were an utter shambles at that time......did you beat them???????

Go on then, tell me how many players from Livi would have got in the Celtic team that night that contained: Hazard, Ralston, Bitton, Duffy, Laxalt, McGregor, Soro, Frimpong, Turnbull, Johnston, Rogic. Subs Okoflex and Henderson.

The point of my original comment was that the OF could play youth and still have more than enough to win games in Scotland. That Celtic team contains 5 players from their youth system and 1 sub player. Swap Rogic for Eduoardo and Duffy for Ajer and they win that game 9 times out of 10 even with that amount of youth players in their team.

It's not about Celtic it's about where they end up.

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

It's not about Celtic it's about where they end up.

It's not about where you end up, it's the journey.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

It's not about where you end up, it's the journey.

Players are mercenaries and want to play at the highest level possible,Ryan Fraser,Scott McKenna, Kieran Tierney
Get your fecking head out the sand.

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Players are mercenaries and want to play at the highest level possible,Ryan Fraser,Scott McKenna, Kieran Tierney
Get your fecking head out the sand.

All mercenaries have a story, you can't just disregard it.

[craigkillie]

14 hours ago, ahemps said:

Celtic were missing 13 players in January against Livi and Hibs yet when looking at the 2 sides during these games the best 11 players on the park still played for Celtic. Celtic were a shambles at that point yet still didn't lose these games proving that you have plenty wiggle room to give fringe/youth players opportunities.

In what world are "Cameron Harper" and "Stephen Welsh" better than Kevin Nisbet and Ryan Porteous?

[wastecoatwilly]

9 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

All mercenaries have a story, you can't just disregard it.

Small country small mentality,parochial bullshit 

[Dons_1988]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Small country small mentality,parochial bullshit 

Maybe you need more blue sky thinking. Like a parachute, a mind only works when it's open.

[wastecoatwilly]

8 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Maybe you need more blue sky thinking. Like a parachute, a mind only works when it's open.

You know I'm right but there is too many fannies on here to go against the grain.

[Dons_1988]

12 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

You know I'm right but there is too many fannies on here to go against the grain.

I think you have lots of thoughts and a reasonable number of words in your armoury, which is admirable.

[ahemps]

29 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

In what world are "Cameron Harper" and "Stephen Welsh" better than Kevin Nisbet and Ryan Porteous?

I'll accept that.

My point being that Celtic were forced into playing a lot of youth and fringe players and the 3rd and 5th best teams in Scotland couldn't beat them. So if you add 3-4 of Celtics big hitters back in that side, they still have room for 2-3 players to play in the Scottish league and still be massive favourites for every game except the OF games. They have plenty chances to play youth players but they choose not do although Celtic to be fair have been better than Rangers at producing players.

[Mr Pikey]

Another forum will be needed to keep the colt team bigotry induced shite away from the rest of us. That in itself is a good enough reason to say naw.

[AJF]

15 hours ago, ahemps said:

Do you not feel though that Rangers and Celtic should in theory have more opportunities than most clubs to blood youngsters? You are overwhelming favourites in every game you play in Scotland apart from against each other so have plenty scope to play youth.

Take your home games against Hamilton, Livi, Ross County etc. you could easily play 1-2 youth players and should still win these games without even getting out of 2nd gear. The Motherwells and St Johnstones make up their teams with players released from Northampton and Wimbledon while you have £5m players on your bench. When you are 3-0 up with 35 minutes to go you could easily give youth players more game time.

Celtic were missing 13 players in January against Livi and Hibs yet when looking at the 2 sides during these games the best 11 players on the park still played for Celtic. Celtic were a shambles at that point yet still didn't lose these games proving that you have plenty wiggle room to give fringe/youth players opportunities.

 

I can see the merits of that theory, but I don't think in practice it works well if I use my club, Rangers, as an example.

Firstly, when I mention giving youth players meaningful game time, half hour cameos a few times a season isn't really going to cut it. When players hit the age of 20/21, ideally they need to be playing senior football week in week out to continue their development. I just can't see that being commonplace at Rangers.

As you mention, we have players worth millions of pounds in our team. Other clubs do not have the luxury of spending significant sums on players so are more likely to bring through youth to fill their squads. Take Hamilton for example - if for some reason overnight they found that they could start spending millions on players, then I'd be quite confident in predicting that the game time given to youth prospects would significantly reduce.

It's said time and time again, but football fans are fickle. When things are going well at Ibrox, you'd probably have lots of people calling for more youth players to be given game time. But as soon as it starts going wrong, then they will start asking why we never spent £2m/£3m on a proven player rather than rely on an inexperienced youth product.

Your example of Celtic probably highlights this. They went through a period of games where they had to rely on youth players and this contributed to them dropping 12 points during the month of January, essentially killing off any faint title hopes they might've had. The fans were outraged and Lennon ultimately lost his job. Obviously, the 12 points dropped was not solely or even primarily down to them having to rely on youth, but it highlights how fragile things are and how there is an expectation at these clubs to win every single game.

It's a difficult balance to get right, and I don't think Rangers will ever be in the position where we see a team full of academy graduates, mainly down to the fan expectation and relative luxury of being able to afford good players.

With all that being said, I still don't like the Colt idea.

[Antiochas III]

15 hours ago, ahemps said:

 

Celtic were missing 13 players in January against Livi and Hibs yet when looking at the 2 sides during these games the best 11 players on the park still played for Celtic. Celtic were a shambles at that point yet still didn't lose these games proving that you have plenty wiggle room to give fringe/youth players opportunities.

 

Celtic when full strength don't have the 11 best players on the park playing a few teams - but certainly not Hibs.  

Edited April 7, 2021 by Antiochas III

[wastecoatwilly]

33 minutes ago, ahemps said:

I'll accept that.

My point being that Celtic were forced into playing a lot of youth and fringe players and the 3rd and 5th best teams in Scotland couldn't beat them. So if you add 3-4 of Celtics big hitters back in that side, they still have room for 2-3 players to play in the Scottish league and still be massive favourites for every game except the OF games. They have plenty chances to play youth players but they choose not do although Celtic to be fair have been better than Rangers at producing players.

Celtic had about 8 u23's in the team that beat hearts in the Scottish cup final,Celtic are not guilty of using young talent in individual games.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

I think you have lots of thoughts and a reasonable number of words in your armoury, which is admirable.

I don't mind acting out in the glasga slums.

[AJF]

18 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Celtic had about 8 u23's in the team that beat hearts in the Scottish cup final,Celtic are not guilty of using young talent in individual games.

This is an entirely different argument to that put forward by the Colt proposal though. Of those "u23's" you mention, that includes players like Edouard, Ajer, Taylor, Turnbull, Frimpong and Soro who are not academy graduates of Celtic and cost approximately £16m combined so it's a rather misleading quote to suggest Celtic brought them through.

[wastecoatwilly]

58 minutes ago, AJF said:

This is an entirely different argument to that put forward by the Colt proposal though. Of those "u23's" you mention, that includes players like Edouard, Ajer, Taylor, Turnbull, Frimpong and Soro who are not academy graduates of Celtic and cost approximately £16m combined so it's a rather misleading quote to suggest Celtic brought them through.

First I didn't suggest anything,the diddies on hear hate the fact Celtic take their young talent even thou we give them decent dosh for their player.
If the colts where introduced it is less likely Celtic will take the Turnbull's,Taylor's, because we will be producing our own.
Celtic have already left the Scottish market alone by bring in players like Ajer and Frimpong again if we are producing our own we wouldn't need to do that.
Players that don't make the grade will find their level in the game instead of leaving the game for good.

[Forever_blueco]

3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

It's not about where you end up, it's the journey.

 

[ahemps]

2 hours ago, Antiochas III said:

Celtic when full strength don't have the 11 best players on the park playing a few teams - but certainly not Hibs.  

This is utter nonsense. If a player not at the old firm is good enough for them then they will soon be at the OF ie Turnbull, Taylor, Wright.

How many players not at the OF get in to the Celtic or Rangers teams? I doubt you could select 3 from the whole league.