Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?

[RandomGuy.]

50 minutes ago, AJF said:

Agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm not sure it would be as clear cut as this. Any decision to leave Scottish Football would need to be voted on by the shareholders and given that we are in the process of trying to increase the level of fan ownership, I'm not sure it would be as unanimous as you think.

Personally, I wouldn't support a move to a different league but I can't speak for everyone.

The decision would depend on what Celtic do, since both clubs are absolutely wedded to each other.

Could fully see both clubs wanting to stay in Scotland, but the one up manship leading to both leaving.

[G51]

The proposed "Atlantic League", if it ever happens, will be a replacement for European football rather than domestic football.

It doesn't stand a chance of happening until after the big clubs break away from UEFA though.

[AJF]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

The decision would depend on what Celtic do, since both clubs are absolutely wedded to each other.

Could fully see both clubs wanting to stay in Scotland, but the one up manship leading to both leaving.

That's probably true. It would depend on who announces their intention first, although I'd probably expect both clubs to consult with each other on it.

I think it would be horrendous if it did happen. Sure, we'd maybe have access to more money to buy better players but ticket prices would sky rocket, you'd not be able to attend a lot of away games (unless you're particularly well off which I am not) and I'd feel like we are joining a group of "tourist clubs" which I absolutely despise.

['WellDel]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

Agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm not sure it would be as clear cut as this. Any decision to leave Scottish Football would need to be voted on by the shareholders and given that we are in the process of trying to increase the level of fan ownership, I'm not sure it would be as unanimous as you think.

Personally, I wouldn't support a move to a different league but I can't speak for everyone.

I take your point re fan ownership levels, but outwith the tedious annual two horse race in the league, European progression is the main and only aim for both clubs to generate as much money as possible and further strengthen their playing squads to succeed on that stage. 

The lack of competition in the league has long since been stated as probably the most detrimental factor to that progression, and I think you're kidding yourself if you think they won't find a way to make it happen should the opportunity arise. 

The main factor against it could be, if it were to happen and the supposed new super league failed for whatever reason, where would they go then? Would the participants have to go back to their respective countries leagues, cap in hand to ask the diddies if they can come play with them again? 

Maybe that's what's behind the Colts shite, a route back into the league if they go to play with the big boys and it doesn't work out. (I jest obviously, but it's as believable as them saying letting the colts in is for the greater good). 

Edited April 9, 2021 by 'WellDel
Fat fingers uploading before post complete

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

That's probably true. It would depend on who announces their intention first, although I'd probably expect both clubs to consult with each other on it.

I think it would be horrendous if it did happen. Sure, we'd maybe have access to more money to buy better players but ticket prices would sky rocket, you'd not be able to attend a lot of away games (unless you're particularly well off which I am not) and I'd feel like we are joining a group of "tourist clubs" which I absolutely despise.

I'd say it's entirely certain not to happen, as all the clubs involved are more than aware the moment they move away from big fish in a small pond, to medium sized fish in a medium sized pond, they risk losing fans.

They'll try and restructure the European Cups to make them a closed shop, while keeping themselves in the domestic leagues aswell.

[Sergeant Wilson]

If Celtic proposed putting anthrax in the water supply @wastecoatwillywould support it.

[ropy]

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

If Celtic proposed putting anthrax in the water supply @wastecoatwillywould support it.

Would this just be Glasgow?

[SecretCEO]

Another possibility would be to give colts teams access to the pyramid playoffs, by having a Development League with its top division at tier 5, alongside the Highland and Lowland leagues. A sort of third side to the pyramid.

If the elite colts had something real like this to aim towards, such as promotion to League Two via the pyramid playoffs, it might improve their quality. And being involved in those playoffs would be tremendous experience for them, without actually threatening the integrity of the league, since its very unlikely the colts would beat the best tier 5 seniors over a series of games.

Even if they did, at least their SPFL place would be earned and there would have been the same opportunity available to many colts teams rather than just the old firm.

I can see why fans of senior clubs would boycott games against colts teams, but I cannot believe any genuine supporter would quit their club altogether over it.

[wastecoatwilly]

On 09/04/2021 at 09:40, Marten said:

I'm originally from The Netherlands and support Excelsior Rotterdam, a team in the Dutch second tier. Colt teams came in the league about a decade ago and they've completely ruined the league. They completely failed in The Netherlands, made the league far less attractive but the big clubs stick by them. Attendances against colt teams are generally lower as plenty of fans simply refuse to watch their team play colt teams and I can't blame them. I already left the country before these teams came into the league but there is no chance I'd go to a game against any of these disgraces if I still lived there, home or away. They add nothing to the league. They ruin a part of the competitive element of the league as these teams can't play for promotion. When you play these teams can make a big difference on how strong your opposition is. For example, Excelsior played in the same season against Ajax Colts with plenty of first team regulars and against a glorified Ajax U18. The latter game was because Ajax had important league games & Champions League coming up so they wanted to keep as much as their squad together as possible so just sent a sub-standard team to play Excelsior as that game was an inconvenience for them. We won comfortably and benefited from it, but that's not the point. It makes a mockery of the league. We were fighting for a play-off spot at the time and our rivals for that spot were rightfully seething about the situation.

These teams also hardly get any support, even Ajax regularly don't even reach double figure away attendances! The 4 teams have by quite a distance the 4 lowest average home attendances in the league. These teams also deprive 2nd tier sides of signing various players (either permanently or on loan) because those 4 need to fill their squads. It's not just The Netherlands, fans of German lower league clubs often feel the same for example. There is no reason to assume any of this would be any different in Scotland. Fans rightfully feel strongly about this and this disgraceful plan shouldn't even be debated. I'd fully understand it when fans stop going to watch football if this plan goes ahead.

It's interesting you mention dutch football when it was Mark Wotte that set up the performance schools at the younger age groups.
The main difference between Scotland and the Netherlands is the infrastructure so it would be less relevant to compare the two countries.
The competitive nature of leagues one and two are mostly part-time,the ambition for these clubs is to stay part-time with a professional outlook.
The aim for the colts is professional coaches on a professional elite level,this is why sending young talent out on loan to clubs that are part time isn't great for their development.
They get first team football but they've got to go back to their parent clubs for further development.

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

It's interesting you mention dutch football when it was Mark Wotte that set up the performance schools at the younger age groups.
The main difference between Scotland and the Netherlands is the infrastructure so it would be less relevant to compare the two countries.
The competitive nature of leagues one and two are mostly part-time,the ambition for these clubs is to stay part-time with a professional outlook.
The aim for the colts is professional coaches on a professional elite level,this is why sending young talent out on loan to clubs that are part time isn't great for their development.
They get first team football but they've got to go back to their parent clubs for further development.

Has anyone ever read as much shite?

[House Bartender]

5 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Has anyone ever read as much shite?

Aye. Was there not a Statement or three which emanated from Mr Traynor & Co which came pretty damn close?

[Loonytoons]

Stick the colts in the top tier with no relegation unless their parent team goes down.
Keeps the other leagues arse-cheek free and think of all of those extra OF clashes.

[BIG TED]

Can anyone see this be taken seriously 

[AJF]

 

[GNU_Linux]

3 minutes ago, AJF said:

 

As I'm reading it the OF are bunging the LL clubs cash to play in what amounts to glorified friendlies. For context the person tweeting this is involved with Vale Of Leithen.

[Steve McQueen]

Why stop at only 1 b team each?

b teams in championship 

c in league 1

d in league 2

e in both lowland & highland leagues.

 

Just think how many players they could develop!

[House Bartender]

So they would be playing under-strength LL teams for no points (indeed, no point). Instead how about joining the amateur leagues thereby helping develop not just the fringe players they have trawled from their rivals but young up and coming talent who would also give them a more competitive game. And these clubs might prostitute themselves for less money.

School leagues are another good alternative. Or perhaps walking football leagues? Table football? Subutteo? Monopoly? (this last being a true strength of one Glasgow club, I hear).

This farce will run and run, nae doot.

[Arabdownunder]

Why don't they just play each other every week? 

[Dons_1988]

Surely playing friendlies completely defeats the purpose of the whole endeavour.

Seems to me it's just yet another attempt to get their foot in the door. Next summer we'll be told how whilst it was great, wouldn't it be even better if they were actually competing in the league!!!

Why so many in Scottish football are happy for the game to become the OF show + supporting cast is absolutely beyond me. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Surely playing friendlies completely defeats the purpose of the whole endeavour.

Seems to me it's just yet another attempt to get their foot in the door. Next summer we'll be told how whilst it was great, wouldn't it be even better if they were actually competing in the league!!!

Why so many in Scottish football are happy for the game to become the OF show + supporting cast is absolutely beyond me. 

I agree with what you are saying. My opinion is that the OF are looking at this as an opportunity to have other teams in the Scottish League so that if they were to leave the top league for more money  elsewhere. 

As an aside all teams in the top flight had a chance to reorganise the top league voting rules, but Milne at Aberdeen chose self interest.  Disgraceful selfish behaviour.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Guest