Celtic and Rangers B Teams in League Two?

[Elric]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I don't believe that,fans that support diddy clubs will always go to their games.Colts don't change that.

I really don't give a flying F***what you believe. Figures from the Challenge Cup games show that fans from "diddy" clubs are not interested in attending  the colts games.

[Moomintroll]

7 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I'm sorry but this is a red line for such a huge majority of people.

If they want to start two teams, let them.

And who cares where they start? It's where they are in 5 or 6 years that's the problem! Every year they would moan and hence get allowed players 1 year older. Every year they are allowed more experienced players "to assist". And initially they are only allowed into L2, say. The argument would be they would develop more against better players, so let's let them into L1. The following year "oh, they'd develop better by..." and on and on it would go.

No, this idea has ZERO benefits and many many drawbacks. An absolute no. I mean how fucking DARE THEY consider their youth players, swilling around academies, unable to get near their 1st team squads, as being of a comparable status to venerable and respectable clubs like those currently inhabiting the lower leagues. NO.

I'll put you down as a maybe then.

[wastecoatwilly]

27 minutes ago, Elric said:

I really don't give a flying F***what you believe. Figures from the Challenge Cup games show that fans from "diddy" clubs are not interested in attending  the colts games.

That's fine if you want to boycott colts games but there is no way fans of diddy clubs will stop going to see their own club.
 

[kingjoey]

3 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I've said before there was a wee bit of nepotism in that signing.

You are absolutely correct that you have said this before. Also pretty sure that someone has said that the Earth is flat on more than one occasion.

[kingjoey]

18 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

That's fine if you want to boycott colts games but there is no way fans of diddy clubs will stop going to see their own club.
 

They did when the colts played in the Challenge Cup.

[Elric]

43 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

That's fine if you want to boycott colts games but there is no way fans of diddy clubs will stop going to see their own club.
 

Unsurprisingly you did not read what I wrote. I WILL NOT boycott colt games - I said I WOULD NOT BE BACK at the football and that goes for many of the fans of "diddy" clubs. But hey who cares as long as the bigot bros get their own way.  When the proposal was to reintroduce the reformed Rangers into the Championship many lower team chairmen were told in no uncertain terms that if they voted for it then there would be no renewal of season tickets and a diminished gate. The same will happen with this proposal.

Everyone bar the blind can see through this proposal. Once your colt teams have reached The Championship you will have to introduce another team into the lower leagues to feed the colts team etc etc.

 

[SecretCEO]

What's really needed is an eccentric solution to this awkward problem, so*:

- expand the bottom tier to 16 teams, recruiting 4 from the Lowland League and 2 from the Highland League, with these teams playing one another x2 = 30 games per team;

- set up an entirely non-pyramid colts league with a top 'elite' division of 8 teams, playing one another x2 = 14 games per team;

- then have every bottom tier SPFL team playing every elite colts team x1 = 8 additional games for the seniors for a total of 38 league games each / 16 additional games for the colts for a total of 30 league games each;

- each seniors v colts match would be worth the usual points, which the seniors would earn towards their own league if they won or drew, and which the colts would earn towards their entirely separate league if they won or drew;

- it would take 16 midweeks for the cross-league fixtures to be completed, since the 8 colt teams could only play one of the 16 senior opponents at a time;

- with old firm colt teams playing one another x2, the TV men could substitute those 2 games for 1 of the televised old firm first team games, meaning that the top SPFL division would only need x3 old firm games and so could expand;

- restructure to 16-16-16 becomes possible, with the top 2 divisions splitting in half after 30 games each and each subsequent mini-league of 8 playing every opponent just once more = 37 games per team;

- the larger bottom tier would enable an automatic and a play off relegation place to the non league.

Because why should old firm colts take precedence over other youngsters, and why should old firm B teams take precedence over proper clubs' first teams.

But there might be something in  colts v seniors from a player development perspective, so trial this crazy scheme for a bit and see what happens.

Or else just let the old firm colts into the SPFL, watch them relegated immediately, and enjoy the new clubs taking their place whilst keeping the current SPFLers safe.

 

(*Insert Ann Budge shaking her head here)

[wastecoatwilly]

3 hours ago, Elric said:

Unsurprisingly you did not read what I wrote. I WILL NOT boycott colt games - I said I WOULD NOT BE BACK at the football and that goes for many of the fans of "diddy" clubs. But hey who cares as long as the bigot bros get their own way.  When the proposal was to reintroduce the reformed Rangers into the Championship many lower team chairmen were told in no uncertain terms that if they voted for it then there would be no renewal of season tickets and a diminished gate. The same will happen with this proposal.

Everyone bar the blind can see through this proposal. Once your colt teams have reached The Championship you will have to introduce another team into the lower leagues to feed the colts team etc etc.

 

For me this is a false promise,why would you stop going after 50 years?
It's social thing not a principle thing,the fans of these clubs go and see their local team because it's in their veins.
  

[Dundee Hibernian]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

The League 2 fans were over twice as likely to favour it compared to the Premiership fans in Supporter Direct Scotland's poll (17.6% versus 8%). I know it's joked about sometimes, but these teams are more likely to have at least a few fans who would welcome the chance to see their big team.

Polls such as the online gauge run by SDS are more open to abuse than most, and it's likely that is what has happened here. But even using their dubious figures, 82.4% of League 2 supporters don't favour Colt sides in their league. It's easy to use unreliable data to suit an argument.

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I'm not saying it's most fans, or even many fans, but there are definitely some fans at some of the League 1 and League 2 clubs for whom that rings true. I'm thinking particularly of Stranraer, Peterhead and Albion Rovers, but there will be others.

I can't think why you've chosen these three clubs collectively and specifically, but in the main people support their own club exclusively in Scotland, in my experience.

[Marten]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

For me this is a false promise,why would you stop going after 50 years?
It's social thing not a principle thing,the fans of these clubs go and see their local team because it's in their veins.
  

Colt teams would completely ruin the lower leagues, it's really as simple as that. You'd be surprised with the amount of fans that wouldn't come if this awful, selfish plan goes through. I don't support an SPFL side, but Tayside is just coming in the pyramid with possible promotion for us to the Highland League. There is always a chance to make the SPFL from there (although I realise it will be very, very tough!) but if the OF colts are in League 2 I'd even be happy for them to end the promotion opportunity again. I'd rather not see my team make the SPFL than end up in a league completely ruined with Colt sides.

It's the hypocrisy of the OF that gets me the most in this, claiming it's good for the lower leagues, Sottish football in general, the national team. None of that is true. They clearly don't give a sh!t about any of that, this is just to serve their own interests and nothing else.

[Raidernation]

Is wetpantswillie still trolling?

[RandomGuy.]

The only upside to Colts would be Falkirk fans talking about being one of the biggest clubs in the country while playing a competitive game against a youth side.

[Elric]

12 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

For me this is a false promise,why would you stop going after 50 years?
It's social thing not a principle thing,the fans of these clubs go and see their local team because it's in their veins.
  

It is probably something you will never understand. We support these teams in the hope of success and look with a degree of envy if another team does well,  gets up a league or two and hope to emulate them. Success for us rarely comes but when it does it is sweeter than anything you will ever experience.   This plan is not for the good of Scottish football or financially beneficial to the lower leagues, despite the pish you are being fed about this, but to benefit 2 clubs who think they can dictate to all others and who have ruined Scottish football for years and that is the reason myself and many others would walk away.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Elric said:

It is probably something you will never understand. We support these teams in the hope of success and look with a degree of envy if another team does well,  gets up a league or two and hope to emulate them. Success for us rarely comes but when it does it is sweeter than anything you will ever experience.   This plan is not for the good of Scottish football or financially beneficial to the lower leagues, despite the pish you are being fed about this, but to benefit 2 clubs who think they can dictate to all others and who have ruined Scottish football for years and that is the reason myself and many others would walk away.

You know nothing about me,you are going to give up something you've been doing for 50 years a weekly social event, something you enjoy, itching to go back to because of covid.
Why would you allow two clubs fae Glasgow stop you from doing that I just don't buy it.You couldn't give 2 fecks about Celtic and sevco.
For me you are posting absolute nonsense there is nothing better than going to the game on a weekly basis,This idea is something we all have in common watching a local boy breaking into the first team it's better than buying a player for millions for me it doesn't matter what team he plays for because you know he has the potential to play at a level with the best in the world. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by wastecoatwilly

[Dons_1988]

17 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

For me you are posting absolute nonsense 

[Samsonite]

When is the vote happening for this?

Unfortunately the opinions of fans are rarely considered by club boards/senior management, so despite the general consensus of fans being against the proposal I cant see this mattering when it comes the majority of clubs voting decision.

[Marten]

36 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

You know nothing about me,you are going to give up something you've been doing for 50 years a weekly social event, something you enjoy, itching to go back to because of covid.
Why would you allow two clubs fae Glasgow stop you from doing that I just don't buy it.You couldn't give 2 fecks about Celtic and sevco.
For me you are posting absolute nonsense there is nothing better than going to the game on a weekly basis,This idea is something we all have in common watching a local boy breaking into the first team it's better than buying a player for millions for me it doesn't matter what team he plays for because you know he has the potential to play at a level with the best in the world. 

I'm originally from The Netherlands and support Excelsior Rotterdam, a team in the Dutch second tier. Colt teams came in the league about a decade ago and they've completely ruined the league. They completely failed in The Netherlands, made the league far less attractive but the big clubs stick by them. Attendances against colt teams are generally lower as plenty of fans simply refuse to watch their team play colt teams and I can't blame them. I already left the country before these teams came into the league but there is no chance I'd go to a game against any of these disgraces if I still lived there, home or away. They add nothing to the league. They ruin a part of the competitive element of the league as these teams can't play for promotion. When you play these teams can make a big difference on how strong your opposition is. For example, Excelsior played in the same season against Ajax Colts with plenty of first team regulars and against a glorified Ajax U18. The latter game was because Ajax had important league games & Champions League coming up so they wanted to keep as much as their squad together as possible so just sent a sub-standard team to play Excelsior as that game was an inconvenience for them. We won comfortably and benefited from it, but that's not the point. It makes a mockery of the league. We were fighting for a play-off spot at the time and our rivals for that spot were rightfully seething about the situation.

These teams also hardly get any support, even Ajax regularly don't even reach double figure away attendances! The 4 teams have by quite a distance the 4 lowest average home attendances in the league. These teams also deprive 2nd tier sides of signing various players (either permanently or on loan) because those 4 need to fill their squads. It's not just The Netherlands, fans of German lower league clubs often feel the same for example. There is no reason to assume any of this would be any different in Scotland. Fans rightfully feel strongly about this and this disgraceful plan shouldn't even be debated. I'd fully understand it when fans stop going to watch football if this plan goes ahead.

[RandomGuy.]

37 minutes ago, Samsonite said:

When is the vote happening for this?

Unfortunately the opinions of fans are rarely considered by club boards/senior management, so despite the general consensus of fans being against the proposal I cant see this mattering when it comes the majority of clubs voting decision.

As always, it won't gain enough support to even reach the stage of an official vote, as not enough clubs want it to happen.

Folk like yourself, who blindly believe the puff pieces the OF pay the Record to pump out, will continue to believe we're on the brink of it happening, though.

['WellDel]

It's either proposals for colts teams one week, or media speculation around the two of them choking to move to a European/Atlantic/English/Anyone who'll have them league the next. 

Chucking a few quid at the lower leagues to give their boys clubs a game is neither for the benefit of the teams in these leagues or, more laughably, the national side.  The disdain they hold the rest of Scottish football in is crystal clear. 

If there was the slightest chance that the opportunity would arise for the two of them to leave for another league they'd be off like a shot, taking the pittance that Sky currently afford us with them. (It will never happen anyway, so moot point). 

The cheerleading for it from their usual friends in the media will continue ad nauseum, so the league need to grow a pair, and tell them definitively that there is no appetite for it from the vast majority of their members and it will not happen. Positions in the league should only be gained rightfully through performance in the pyramid system, not through pressure, bullying and bribery with your spare change. 

Get this shite in the sea once and for all. 

 

[AJF]

38 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

If there was the slightest chance that the opportunity would arise for the two of them to leave for another league they'd be off like a shot, taking the pittance that Sky currently afford us with them. (It will never happen anyway, so moot point). 

 

Agree with a lot of what you say, but I'm not sure it would be as clear cut as this. Any decision to leave Scottish Football would need to be voted on by the shareholders and given that we are in the process of trying to increase the level of fan ownership, I'm not sure it would be as unanimous as you think.

Personally, I wouldn't support a move to a different league but I can't speak for everyone.