Nathan Paterson

[Jambomo]

I don’t think that last night changed my opinion of him. He is a good player, has the potential to be an excellent player, but needs to improve an awful lot defensively and would really benefit from moving away from Rangers and getting club games.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

 

What im saying is even the top teams recognise the best young players and pick them. They don't wait for them to play 60 games.

Patterson is better than O'donnell, hes more than old enough and good enough for us.

 

Lots of sweeping statements there, given that Patterson isn't even first choice for his club. 

I think Patterson has great potential, but to say that he's a better defender at this moment than O'Donnell is completely incorrect. In fact, some of his defending in the games he's played has been pretty damn awful. 

I'm obviously biased because I've seen more of Ramsey than Patterson, but defending-wise Ramsey is far better at this point in time. He's also at least as good as Patterson going forward.

 I wish Patterson a long and succesful international career, but for some reason he seems to have been fast tracked before players that are probably more advanced than him at this moment. 

 

 

[AJF]

Patterson clearly isn’t the finished article. Other than laying it on a plate for Adams inside the first 60 seconds, his first half last night was an absolute stinker by anyone’s standards and he was rightly criticised for it.

He bounced back though and ended up finishing quite strongly. I’m also confident having watched him a few times now that his first half was not the ‘norm’ for him.

A player that is in the Scotland squad at 19 and is featuring for the top domestic side that is notoriously bad at giving youth an opportunity I’d say shows he has a bit about him and I’ve no doubt his ability is among the top 2/3 Scottish right backs available to us.

[Ro Sham Bo]

Is Hickey actually that interested in international football? He seems to pull out of every squad he gets named in, albeit they're not senior squad call ups. 

If he's still playing regularly for Bologna he has to be called up so that Clarke can take a look at him. 

[red23]

Just now, Ro Sham Bo said:

Is Hickey actually that interested in international football? He seems to pull out of every squad he gets named in, albeit they're not senior squad call ups. 

If he's still playing regularly for Bologna he has to be called up so that Clarke can take a look at him. 

Just googled him, looks a bit of a fud tbh

[red23]

3 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I'd have him and patterson in the squad right now and let them fight it out for the position going forward.

Careful, i got about 10 downvotes for saying that

[oneteaminglasgow]

3 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Is Hickey actually that interested in international football? He seems to pull out of every squad he gets named in, albeit they're not senior squad call ups. 

If he's still playing regularly for Bologna he has to be called up so that Clarke can take a look at him. 

He’s injured, is he not?

This stuff about not being interested has been thrown around about Tierney and Fraser in the recent past, off the top of my head. 

[red23]

On 05/10/2021 at 23:43, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

I'm not even sure he was the most egregious example of such terrible call ups.

There's a very well looked after Twitter account that has tweeted the details of every debut ever made for Scotland.  The period in the early 2000s does not make good reading.

I was going to say that recent years have been better, but we've had some odd caps given out (Hanlon, Considine, McGinn), but hopefully history will remember those for the period in which they were awarded (rather that compared to 2001-2004, which I insist everyone has a look at!)

But then, I've just gone and looked - Stuart Findlay, Michael Devlin, Eamonn Brophy, Marc McNulty... suggests this isn't a golden era of solid picking.  And that's without going near the calamity of Mexico and Peru...

A lot of the players you mentioned there were called up for a reason, a chronic lack of strikers/defenders etc. We were utterly desperate around then.

There were plenty of midfield options yet Strachan opted to shoehorn in Black ahead of some better players who could have gone on to have an international career rather than someone who was clearly never going to have one.

[Clown Job]

9 minutes ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Is Hickey actually that interested in international football? He seems to pull out of every squad he gets named in, albeit they're not senior squad call ups. 

If he's still playing regularly for Bologna he has to be called up so that Clarke can take a look at him. 

People used to make the same accusation towards Tierney

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, red23 said:

A lot of the players you mentioned there were called up for a reason, a chronic lack of strikers/defenders etc. We were utterly desperate around then.

There were plenty of midfield options yet Strachan opted to shoehorn in Black ahead of some better players who could have gone on to have an international career rather than someone who was clearly never going to have one.

Ian Black was called up by Levein, not Strachan, and he had just been part of a Hearts team that won the Scottish Cup. As a player, he was one of those guys who was never quite going to be good enough for Scotland but who you could understand getting a call-up for a friendly when we were perhaps missing a few. The issue for me was never about Black's ability, but more the statement it made given that he had just sacrificed any hope of a top level career for the sake of the extra money at Rangers.

Edited October 10, 2021 by craigkillie

[red23]

24 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Ian Black was called up by Levein, not Strachan, and he had just been part of a Hearts team that won the Scottish Cup. As a player, he was one of those guys who was never quite going to be good enough for Scotland but who you could understand getting a call-up for a friendly when we were perhaps missing a few. The issue for me was never about Black's ability, but more the statement it made given that he had just sacrificed any hope of a top level career for the sake of the extra money at Rangers.

ah im maybe confusing the Strachan thing when he called up Lee Wallace, was sure Strachan had Black in his squad too. Either way the Levein/Strachan tenures made me care so little for the national side, as i think it did for many.

[Bing.McCrosby]

6 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Lots of sweeping statements there, given that Patterson isn't even first choice for his club. 

I thought it was pretty clear from my post that the point is he doesn't have to be.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I thought it was pretty clear from my post that the point is he doesn't have to be.

Fairy nuff. 

I respect your opinion, and I get it that Clarke wants Patterson in the side mainly because of his pace going forwards. I just wonder though how a defender is going to learn to defend if he doesn't play club football regularly ?

Gavi is a midfielder, and like Gilmour there's a lot less risk throwing him into international football than there is with a young, inexperienced defender. Any mistakes that he makes in midfield in general won't lead to the risk of conceding goals. 

I'm afraid that at this moment....and there seems to be general agreement on this....Patterson doesn't look anywhere good enough as an international defender. He'll be fine against the smaller teams (although still inconsistent), but he would be a huge risk to the point of being a liability if we played him against a decent side. 

He seems an intelligent lad, and I'm sure his defensive abilities would improve quickly if he was playing regular football where he was tested. Maybe the best thing for him, and Scotland, would be for him to move clubs. 

 

 

 

[2426255]

18 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Patterson is better than O'donnell, hes more than old enough and good enough for us.

That's another stinking binary point of view. I think it's clear that both players have there place in the squad and add value in different ways. Away games in places such as Austria, Denmark and England would perhaps suit Stephen O'Donnell better while Nathan Patterson is perhaps a stronger choice against teams where we will have the chance to attack more such as Israel and Moldova at home or equally the Faroes Islands or Moldova away.

5 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I get it that Clarke wants Patterson in the side mainly because of his pace going forwards. I just wonder though how a defender is going to learn to defend if he doesn't play club football regularly ?

Gavi is a midfielder, and like Gilmour there's a lot less risk throwing him into international football than there is with a young, inexperienced defender. Any mistakes that he makes in midfield in general won't lead to the risk of conceding goals. 

I'm afraid that at this moment....and there seems to be general agreement on this....Patterson doesn't look anywhere good enough as an international defender. He'll be fine against the smaller teams (although still inconsistent), but he would be a huge risk to the point of being a liability if we played him against a decent side. 

He seems an intelligent lad, and I'm sure his defensive abilities would improve quickly if he was playing regular football where he was tested. Maybe the best thing for him, and Scotland, would be for him to move clubs. 

He might have been nervous rather than not being good enough. If he wasn't at ease that would affect decision making, his touch etc. I think there is space presently for both players to play games for Scotland. It's terrifying how quickly people get built up on here and equally how quickly people get torn down. Patterson and O'Donnell are first class example of that.

I think it will take time for our team to get used to playing with the pressure of the Hampden crowd and build up the relationship with the fans and a history of winning matches there.

Edited October 11, 2021 by 2426255

[G51]

15 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

 

I'm obviously biased because I've seen more of Ramsey than Patterson, but defending-wise Ramsey is far better at this point in time. He's also at least as good as Patterson going forward.

 

 

 

I like Ramsay a lot, but context is key: Patterson has played in international games and European knockout ties. Ramsay’s career opponents consist of bottom six Premiership teams (plus Hearts and Celtic), Dumbarton, Raith Rovers, Qarabag, Breidalbik and Hacken. 

I’d still have him in the squad to backup Patterson, but there are plenty of question marks over how he looks when he isn’t playing against bad teams.

[forameus]

14 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Ian Black was called up by Levein, not Strachan, and he had just been part of a Hearts team that won the Scottish Cup. As a player, he was one of those guys who was never quite going to be good enough for Scotland but who you could understand getting a call-up for a friendly when we were perhaps missing a few. The issue for me was never about Black's ability, but more the statement it made given that he had just sacrificed any hope of a top level career for the sake of the extra money at Rangers.

I felt a tiny bit sorry for Black that night.  Levein was in full-on f**k you mode, and it seemed like he was being tossed out to inevitable boos just so Levein could prove how little he cared what people thought.  Now that can be a good thing if we're talking about a risky pick that comes good, but Black was never going to get that.

[2426255]

50 minutes ago, G51 said:

I like Ramsay a lot, but context is key: Patterson has played in international games and European knockout ties. Ramsay’s career opponents consist of bottom six Premiership teams (plus Hearts and Celtic), Dumbarton, Raith Rovers, Qarabag, Breidalbik and Hacken. 

I’d still have him in the squad to backup Patterson, but there are plenty of question marks over how he looks when he isn’t playing against bad teams.

Being a Rangers fan I wouldn't expect anything else other than support for Patterson as he is one of your own just like St Johnstone fans want Rooney, Celtic fans want Ralston and Aberdeen fans want Ramsay. 

[No_Problemo]

1 minute ago, 2426255 said:

Being a Rangers fan I wouldn't expect anything else other than support for Patterson as he is one of your own just like St Johnstone fans want Rooney, Celtic fans want Ralston and Aberdeen fans want Ramsay. 

It is a completely fair point though, Patterson played against a champions league standard winger at times the other night - Ramsay hasn’t came up against that standard yet so it remains to be seen. 

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

15 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Lots of sweeping statements there, given that Patterson isn't even first choice for his club. 

I think Patterson has great potential, but to say that he's a better defender at this moment than O'Donnell is completely incorrect. In fact, some of his defending in the games he's played has been pretty damn awful. 

I'm obviously biased because I've seen more of Ramsey than Patterson, but defending-wise Ramsey is far better at this point in time. He's also at least as good as Patterson going forward.

 I wish Patterson a long and succesful international career, but for some reason he seems to have been fast tracked before players that are probably more advanced than him at this moment. 

 

 

SOD almost has 25 caps, and - at least to some extent - owes his career to there being no better option at RB.  Hutton had his limitations, but it became immediately obvious just how difficult it is to have players at his level.  We've tried a fair few options since 2017, and SOD has been the best, without being spectacular.

Outwith Hickey, and Ramsay only realistically being an option in the last three months, Patterson is by a considerable distance, our best RB outwith SOD.  That he's a bit raw, and has a lot to learn is neither surprising, nor relevant.

I suspect playing a stuffy and disciplined Israel side, built almost entirely to nullify our wing threat, was hardly going to be his best opportunity to perform.  Tierney and Robertson are not only world class, but by overlapping/underlapping each other present a very effective outlet.  McTominay on the other hand, whilst being a fantastic player, is not simply a right-footed Tierney.

I'd expected SOD to play on Saturday, and Patterson on Tuesday (as I'd simply imagined those games to better play to their respective strengths).  Not sure if that means it will just be reversed.

Supposedly, the Faroes are quite physical, so it may be a better game for SOD in any case.

[DAFC.]

Patterson is better than SOD. He should be first choice at RWB for the foreseeable. SOD playing just because he is "solid enough" is just typical negative Scotland. Clarke called it right on Saturday. First half he was all over the place, but second half he showed how good he is. He'll make mistakes as he is still a teenager, but I don't see why SOD should be playing ahead of him at all now.