Jump to content

Sarah Everard


Recommended Posts

56 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

One point I poorly tried to make once on here is that the feeling of safety is not a guarantee of safety. 

Absolutely women should feel safe walking home from a night out, say. But that isn't the same as being safe - the Everard case is a prime example. A woman, walking at night, sees a police officer. Probably imagined that her safety level had, if anything, gone up. We know sadly that this was not the case. 

A woman at home might feel safe, but domestic violence and domestic abuse is (to my mind) at least as great a danger to women. Living with men, being in their homes away from prying eyes - they might feel safe but could be in danger. 

I'm not sure I agree with @oaksoft that male culture - even if we can define it - is the root cause of people like Couzens acting the way they do. There are many blokish men who have very macho lives, have "banter" about women, poor attitudes and never harm women. And we have many men who are not blokish, can be very polite and respectful 99% of the time and do the most horrendous stuff to women. 

I don't have the answer. But I fear that people in power who also don't have the answer will blunder around trying stuff to be seen to be acting in the right way.

I’ve found myself watching the advert from the police, and feeling pretty uncomfortable about my own behaviour at times.  The “blokish” point I suppose is that it sets the tone and excuses, in their minds, those who go “just a little bit further”.  If the banter is less acceptable, the next step on is clearer to everyone.

Going back to the train incident someone mentioned a few pages ago - you could see it as just banter.  It’s not though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that relevant to the discussion above but I remember being in Dundee Union and my mate from Czech Republic spanked some bird’s arse as she went by. He seemed confused that this was considered unacceptable behaviour by the rest of us. He then told me that they have a festival in Czech Republic each year where all the men go door to door spanking the women’s arses (possibly with whips). Absolutely bizarre stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



There are many blokish men who have very macho lives, have "banter" about women, poor attitudes and never harm women. And we have many men who are not blokish, can be very polite and respectful 99% of the time and do the most horrendous stuff to women.

I think this is often overlooked in this debate. Ted Bundy was by all accounts a very charming, respectful man aside from all the murders and what not.

Of course, that doesn't mean it's okay to go around being an arsehole, but there are two unconnected problems here.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, scottsdad said:

I'm not sure I agree with @oaksoft that male culture - even if we can define it - is the root cause of people like Couzens acting the way they do.

 

To be fair, that's not what I was saying.

I'm saying that male culture contributes to women feeling scared.

And I'm also saying that male culture prevents guys like Couzens standing out like a sore thumb.

I think men are struggling to realise that this isn't just about the likes of Couzens. It's about a more general widespread fear that men breed in women in society because of the culture men have created. I don't think most men understand that at all.

If anyone needs to understand what this male culture looks like they simply need to start asking the women in their lives about it. They'll tell you. They've been telling men for decades. We've just not been listening and assuming that because we're not all sexual perverts that somehow everything is hunky dory.

Anyway, I just wanted to pop back onto to correct that first point.

Edited by oaksoft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, that's not what I was saying.
I'm saying that male culture contributes to women feeling scared.
And I'm also saying that male culture prevents guys like Couzens standing out like a sore thumb.
I think men are struggling to realise that this isn't just about the likes of Couzens. It's about a more general widespread fear that men breed in women in society because of the culture men have created. I don't think most men understand that at all.
If anyone needs to understand what this male culture looks like they simply need to start asking the women in their lives about it. They'll tell you. They've been telling men for decades. We've just not been listening and assuming that because we're not all sexual perverts that somehow everything is hunky dory.
Anyway, I just wanted to pop back onto to correct that first point.

What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SweeperDee said:


What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?

I've already answered this question directly earlier in the thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?
Either way it's still a problem with men.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:
2 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?

Either way it's still a problem with men.

Which is fixable...how exactly? Because as I highlighted previously, this overwhelming violence has been an issue since time immemorial. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, hk blues said:

I doubt it...it seems his colleagues had it in for him.  

Aye, there was a lot more going on there than not stumping up enough for jaffa cakes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, scottsdad said:

Living with men, being in their homes away from prying eyes - they might feel safe but could be in danger. 

I'm not sure I agree with @oaksoft that male culture - even if we can define it - is the root cause of people like Couzens acting the way they do. 

I was taken with your juxtaposition of the mundane and the aberration, so forgive my edit.

Male culture is clearly a huge issue and just as much as it isn't the root cause of the recent catastrophic events that took away Sarah, it is a subject that is difficult indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, superbigal said:

My understanding is they were the packs you get for kids school packed lunches.
So ten bob is a bit steep for 2 jaffa cakes.

Should have mugged a kid for his lunchtime snack then.  Might still have a job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, SweeperDee said:


What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?

I’m not going to criticise your post.

Maybe just take a step back and think about it.  If it really is your position, fair enough. If it is just you playing devils advocate, fair enough again.  Either way, what does your post have to say about male violence against women?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not going to criticise your post.
Maybe just take a step back and think about it.  If it really is your position, fair enough. If it is just you playing devils advocate, fair enough again.  Either way, what does your post have to say about male violence against women?

Go back and read what I posted before; I am hurting to know what can be done because as it stands, men are damaging women in unspeakable ways, in unacceptable numbers. It’s fucking horrible, but I’m not going to accept it’s solely down to culture; that’s reductionist and it doesn’t begin to approach to solve the problem. Shouting from the rooftops “listen to the women and they will say how to fix it” has little meaning if we do everything they say and yet IT STILL HAPPENS. Then what do we blame? More “culture”?

I was just asking that particular slant because I was wanting to know what p***kish answer Oaksoft was going to come up with next, to see if he could stay consistent.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...