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Sarah Everard


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That's damnable.
Certainly not the kind of behaviour you would expect to encounter in St Andrews. Presumably this was reported to the police?
It was, group of English guys up to play golf. Police traced them back to a hotel in St Andrews. Hopefully charges will be brought.

Paramedics attended at the scene but my son refused to go to hospital. Spent the next two days throwing up before telling me what had happened. I just thought he had a hang over!

Raced him down to ER as soon as he told me what had happened (got first aid training so know how serious throwing up is after a head injury). He was so lucky, amount of pain he must of been in before telling me doesn't bare thinking about.
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7 hours ago, Arch Stanton said:

Several women phoning or texting in to Radio Scotland this morning suggesting that all men should be monitored during daylight hours and arrested if they break a curfew.

Aye, right yer are hen.

Perhaps you’re not getting it. It is a reaction to people saying that women shouldn’t go out alone at night, shouldn’t wear short skirts, should stay on the phone to friends while walking etc.  It’s not a serious suggestion - it is showing the absurdity of expecting women to change their behaviour in order to protect themselves against men.

But there again, given you are on a thread about violence against women and misogynist attitudes, coming out with “right yer are hen”, perhaps it’s not surprising that you’re not getting it.

Edited by Wee Bully
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2 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

Perhaps you’re not getting it. It is a reaction to people saying that women shouldn’t go out alone at night, shouldn’t wear short skirts, should stay on the phone to friends while walking etc.  It’s not a serious suggestion - it is showing the absurdity of expecting women to change their behaviour in order to protect themselves against men.

But there again, given you are on a thread about violence against women and misogynist attitudes, coming out with “right yer are hen”, perhaps it’s not surprising that you’re not getting it.

Yes, I thought that was unnecessary.

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I do worry about my daughter. My eldest got through her teenage years OK without any incidents that I know of. My youngest (she's only 11 so this will hopefully be years away) is a bit more trusting and I do worry how she would react to being approached. I worry now, when she is 16 I'll be going doolally when she goes out.

I guess most fathers are the same - a (female) friend of mine had her dad drive her to and from nightclubs when she was about 20. At the time I thought he was a mug for doing it - now I get it. I can see myself sitting in a car with a book and a thermos, like he did.

Even so there is no rule that says all this happens to women on nights out or walking in the streets. My little cousin was murdered by her boyfriend almost 20 years ago at his house - where he lived with his parents. A lot of the stuff said here could come under this - respectable family, good upbringing and all that.

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6 minutes ago, peasy23 said:

Just to prove that a copper can get sacked.
 

 

On 08/10/2021 at 13:07, Mark Connolly said:

Can absolutely see him getting sacked along with a "See, we are tough on the bad guys" type statement.

:whistle

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On 10/10/2021 at 22:26, SweeperDee said:


What is the solution to prevent men from attacking women disproportionately? Besides the obvious solutions like educating men not to act like lurid cretins, tougher sentences and more robust investigations from the police into the various types of abuse men carry out against women, providing more services for women that have been victims of this sort of abuse; what else is there if men STILL carry out these sorts of attacks?

It's not just the attacks. It's a more general problem where men create an atmosphere of fear for women in society.

For a start we can look at changing male culture.

Predatory men SHOULD be easy to spot. Their behaviour should stand out like a sore thumb.

But it doesn't because with the current male culture of being ultra-macho, aggressive, entitled and predatory they fit right in.

So we don't spot them and their behaviour can spiral unchecked.

Male culture needs to change so that these guys stand out immediately and can have their behaviour checked before it gets out of hand.

We have had posters on this forum who have demonstrated they don't even understand what consent means. They think there's a "grey area" or "blurred lines". This is very worrying and young boys clearly need taught how to treat women at very young ages.

We could start with that. That would make a large difference.

None of that will stop rape or attacks but it will go a long way to make women feel a lot safer around us.

If one of our mates said we made him feel unsafe and we were a decent person, we'd be humiliated and change wouldn't we? I think we all owe women this.

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There's no such thing as 'male culture', in the same way that there isn't a 'female culture' that all women are answerable for. You can't restore sweeping, outdated, sexist stereotypes just because it makes your argument against injustice simpler - though not actually insightful.

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13 hours ago, virginton said:

There's no such thing as 'male culture', in the same way that there isn't a 'female culture' that all women are answerable for. You can't restore sweeping, outdated, sexist stereotypes just because it makes your argument against injustice simpler - though not actually insightful.

And there's the issue right there. This is just defensiveness and denial from you. And utterly depressing and predictable that you got a raft of greenies for it too.

To deny male entitlement and culture is a thing is just plain ignorant and you do have to wonder why you would do that.

Why don't you direct that comment at the women in your life (if you have any) and see if they agree.

It's not really surprising to hear but if men like you aren't prepared to even acknowledge the problem then you cannot be part of any solution.

The police have released a video about this so it's good to see someone at least try and explain this issue.

Well worth a watch even if not everything he says is necessarily correct.

https://that-guy.co.uk/what-can-men-do-to-help-tackle-sexual-violence/

Edited by oaksoft
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13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

And there's the issue right there. This is just defensiveness and denial from you. And utterly depressing and predictable that you got a raft of greenies for it too.

To deny male entitlement and culture is a thing is just plain ignorant and you do have to wonder why you would do that.

Why don't you direct that comment at the women in your life (if you have any) and see if they agree.

It's not really surprising to hear but if men like you aren't prepared to even acknowledge the problem then you cannot be part of any solution.

The police have released a video about this so it's good to see someone at least try and explain this issue.

Well worth a watch even if not everything he says is necessarily correct.

https://that-guy.co.uk/what-can-men-do-to-help-tackle-sexual-violence/

You know i very rarely agree with you, but spot on here for once!

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4 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

You know i very rarely agree with you, but spot on here for once!

I was just thinking that virginton had achieved the impossible by making me sympathise with Oaksoft's side of an argument.

In Life, as in Politics, change will only come when those who are well served by the status quo seek to change it. Our wee cellar-dweller obviously doesn't think society has a problem with the way certain sectors of it are treated - as long as it doesn't affect him. As he's not affected one way or the other, he can carry on looking up big words and lobbing them up here to harvest greenies from the usual acolytes.

I haven't looked, but I'd wager I could name at least 5/6 of the posters who have given his latest brain fart the thumbs-up. In fact, I'll just wait until the exact same weasels come along and give me their seal of disapproval. Depressingly predictable.

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8 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

You know i very rarely agree with you, but spot on here for once!

First time for everything.

It should be screamingly obvious to every man what the problem is, why we've created a male culture where these sharks can hide undetected and how it can all be fixed.

Just like the last time we attempted to discuss this issue on the site, it seems to be that this is all getting a little too close to home for some posters on here. The sheer levels of defensiveness and denial can't otherwise credibly be explained.

A lot of people clearly need either educating or dragged through this issue by their teeth.
I've no interest in being involved in doing either to be honest.

I've stated what the problem is. It's up to everyone else to decide whether to step up and help be part of the fix or to actively decide to remain part of the problem.

I'll step back from the thread now with one final plea to all men.

FFS, stop talking and, for once, listen to what women are telling us.

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One point I poorly tried to make once on here is that the feeling of safety is not a guarantee of safety. 

Absolutely women should feel safe walking home from a night out, say. But that isn't the same as being safe - the Everard case is a prime example. A woman, walking at night, sees a police officer. Probably imagined that her safety level had, if anything, gone up. We know sadly that this was not the case. 

A woman at home might feel safe, but domestic violence and domestic abuse is (to my mind) at least as great a danger to women. Living with men, being in their homes away from prying eyes - they might feel safe but could be in danger. 

I'm not sure I agree with @oaksoft that male culture - even if we can define it - is the root cause of people like Couzens acting the way they do. There are many blokish men who have very macho lives, have "banter" about women, poor attitudes and never harm women. And we have many men who are not blokish, can be very polite and respectful 99% of the time and do the most horrendous stuff to women. 

I don't have the answer. But I fear that people in power who also don't have the answer will blunder around trying stuff to be seen to be acting in the right way.

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6 minutes ago, Lofarl said:

If it wasn’t for Wayne Couzens that copper would have his job and 90p extra in his wallet.

I doubt it...it seems his colleagues had it in for him.  

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