Sarah Everard

[throbber]

8 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Yeah wearing a Scotland top with a group of fans who all laughed at it. A guy who’s at least mid thirties physically grabbing a teenager and saying that to their face. You are a nonce pal, get straight to the jail.

Wankers. I hate to think how many of them had kids themselves.

[throbber]

2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I imagine you are less likely to be assaulted for challenging people on the workplace than challenging a load of pissed strangers.

Is that the real reason you wouldn’t confront it though? I don’t think confronting it would result in violence. At the risk of making myself sound like an absolute shitebag I wouldn’t confront it as it was inconvenient for me to do so and the fact I was there for a good time.

[ICTChris]

1 hour ago, throbber said:

Is that the real reason you wouldn’t confront it though? I don’t think confronting it would result in violence. At the risk of making myself sound like an absolute shitebag I wouldn’t confront it as it was inconvenient for me to do so and the fact I was there for a good time.

I think most of the time people would probably be fine but I’ve had personal experience of being threatened after asking a random drunk guy to stop harassing a friend of mine at a gig. Most people are going to be at least a bit wary of confronting a group of drunk men.

[SweeperDee]

I’ve been knocked out by some baldy w****r for telling him to stop creeping on a female friend of mine in a nightclub. It’s the right thing to do, but you have to weigh up whether you’re putting yourself in danger by doing it, or avoiding danger yourself by not getting involved. It’s a hard one; we are built for self-preservation whether we like to admit it or not.

[101]

12 hours ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Sitting on the train back to Edinburgh after the game tonight, steaming guy grabs a young (and I mean young) girl walking passed by the arm and shouts “I would smash you” and his pals laugh. Him being built like a brick shithouse and steaming, and I being the coward I am, along with everyone around me, say nothing to avoid getting a kicking. Sitting feeling pretty sick tbh, made even worse by the fact she just shook him off and walked off like it was a regular occurrence.

Alcohol regularly used as an excuse for disgraceful behaviour, but I just cannot fathom how a grown man can act like that and not realise they are an absolute scumbag.

Best thing would be text the BTP and get him lifted, easier to identify him when the polis are than and he's not likely to give you a scheme booting.

I would say you're sensible and not a coward for putting yourself in that situation especially in a confined space.

[welshbairn]

There's a difference between confronting someone who's briefly being obnoxious to someone seriously harassing somebody over time. In the above case it's up to his mates to call him out, I don't think I'd risk it. If he was following her up the road doing it and she couldn't get away, I'd hope I would. 

[Michael W]

2 hours ago, throbber said:

Is it any harder than confronting it in the work place or anywhere else though? These just sounds like excuses that are made up for not confronting scumbaggery which sums up the entire situation perfectly.

You're far less likely to get your arse kicked in the office for starters. 

And if you do manage to get the better of the perpetrator, I doubt you're going to have to fend off his five mates either... 

[ICTChris]

1 hour ago, Michael W said:

You're far less likely to get your arse kicked in the office for starters. 

And if you do manage to get the better of the perpetrator, I doubt you're going to have to fend off his five mates either... 

Depends on the workplace of course!

[throbber]

2 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

I’ve been knocked out by some baldy w****r for telling him to stop creeping on a female friend of mine in a nightclub. It’s the right thing to do, but you have to weigh up whether you’re putting yourself in danger by doing it, or avoiding danger yourself by not getting involved. It’s a hard one; we are built for self-preservation whether we like to admit it or not.

 

2 hours ago, Michael W said:

You're far less likely to get your arse kicked in the office for starters. 

And if you do manage to get the better of the perpetrator, I doubt you're going to have to fend off his five mates either... 

I get all that - I still think the chances of being significantly hurt physically on a moving train with dozens of people in close proximity are pretty slim. The broader point I’m probably not making the best attempt at making is that almost everyone will go to substantial lengths to avoid confrontation when going about their day and scumbags like the guy on the train won’t think they have done anything wrong as nobody pulled them up over it. 

[Billy Jean King]

I get all that - I still think the chances of being significantly hurt physically on a moving train with dozens of people in close proximity are pretty slim. The broader point I’m probably not making the best attempt at making is that almost everyone will go to substantial lengths to avoid confrontation when going about their day and scumbags like the guy on the train won’t think they have done anything wrong as nobody pulled them up over it. 

If I had a pound for every fight I've seen on a train over the years I'd be rich. Most recently two nutters knocking 7 bells out each other on a packed train still at the platform in Central after the Moldova game.

[throbber]

7 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

If I had a pound for every fight I've seen on a train over the years I'd be rich. Most recently two nutters knocking 7 bells out each other on a packed train still at the platform in Central after the Moldova game.

I doubt it was over one of them confronting the other about inappropriate behaviour towards a minor.

[Empty It]

I get all that - I still think the chances of being significantly hurt physically on a moving train with dozens of people in close proximity are pretty slim. The broader point I’m probably not making the best attempt at making is that almost everyone will go to substantial lengths to avoid confrontation when going about their day and scumbags like the guy on the train won’t think they have done anything wrong as nobody pulled them up over it. 

Very high chance that someone with the attitude to make sexual comments at a young lass in the street would need little provocation to punch someone in the mouth.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

5 hours ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Yeah wearing a Scotland top with a group of fans who all laughed at it. A guy who’s at least mid thirties physically grabbing a teenager and saying that to their face. You are a nonce pal, get straight to the jail.

You know that there is a phone line as mentioned set up by btp for exactly this kind of behaviour? The trains have excellent cctv and with ticket barriers and credit card payments on most machines this person is easily identifiable to them and you could make that report if you genuinely were disturbed by the behaviour, they dont even need to trace the female if you provide a statement and its on cctv. 
 

Behaviour around Hampden last night was genuinely embarrassing, folk in pishing in people’s gardens, rubbish left everywhere and loads of tanked up folk behaving like dafties from lots of sources. Tartan Army dine out on this ‘best fans in the world’ stuff but im a bit baffled.

[throbber]

31 minutes ago, Empty It said:

Very high chance that someone with the attitude to make sexual comments at a young lass in the street would need little provocation to punch someone in the mouth.

is a punch on the mouth a small price to pay for calling scummy behaviour like this out though? At least you will have done what you can to help the situation. 

[SweeperDee]

4 minutes ago, throbber said:

is a punch on the mouth a small price to pay for calling scummy behaviour like this out though? At least you will have done what you can to help the situation. 

Falling over from said punch and cracking your skull on a curb or the side of a hard seat is a pretty high price to pay, especially from no fault of your own. 

[Michael W]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Depends on the workplace of course!

I have a cushy, middle-class-style  desk job. Work from home most days, so would only have myself to fight. 

Reckon I'd take the majority of them anyway

 

33 minutes ago, throbber said:

is a punch on the mouth a small price to pay for calling scummy behaviour like this out though? At least you will have done what you can to help the situation. 

Depends how hard the guy can punch, doesn't it? Being knocked out or having a broken jaw certainly would not be a price worth paying it. "Aye, but you should see the state of the other guy" vibes about that. 

The only way the guy might reign in his shitey behaviour is if his mates tell him he's out of line. In this case, they laughed. 

 

[ICTJohnboy]

53 minutes ago, throbber said:

is a punch on the mouth a small price to pay for calling scummy behaviour like this out though? At least you will have done what you can to help the situation. 

 

I've known people that took offence at a wee punch on the mouth.

Strange but true.

[SweeperDee]

16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

So from reading the last page or so, the message is clear.

That young girl and in fact all young girls learn that they are not safe from predatory men even on a packed train carriage surrounded by other fully grown adults.

She can't rely on adults to protect her because the other men on the train are either shit scared of stepping up or just want to have a good time and don't want the inconvenience of stepping up.

And that is the nub of the problem of why the women in our society feel so afraid.

Do men not understand this or do they not want to admit it or can they just not be arsed even acknowledging it?

 

You've had some hot takes over the past few days; you going back to your old self?

Fact of the matter is, and as unfortunate it is to say, people will not just jump to the defence of a stranger, out of self-preservation, 9 times out of 10. Do I risk my life to stop something bad happening to a loved one? I'd like to think I would. For a stranger? In an ideal world, everyone would help everyone regardless of the personal cost, but it's just not happening I'm afraid. 

I'd take a stab at figuring why women feel so afraid; it's because a disproportionate amount of violence is taken out on them, 9 times out of 10 by men, and there's no real visible solution to fixing that. Why are men seemingly more prone to carrying out acts of extreme violence against women? I'm reluctant to say because "society", as that doesn't really explain anything at all. It's been like this since the cavemen. That's the nub of the issue, and a lot of people don't really like delving into that particular can of worms. 

Edited October 10, 2021 by SweeperDee

[Gordon EF]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

So from reading the last page or so, the message is clear.

That young girl and in fact all young girls learn that they are not safe from predatory men even on a packed train carriage surrounded by other fully grown adults.

She can't rely on adults to protect her because the other men on the train are either shit scared of stepping up or just want to have a good time and don't want the inconvenience of stepping up.

And that is the nub of the problem of why the women in our society feel so afraid.

Do men not understand this or do they not want to admit it or can they just not be arsed even acknowledging it?

 

Obviously you'll never miss an opportunity to be indignant about something but it seems pretty clear from the story that the girl wasn't in any kind of continuing danger after the incident happened.

Anyone involving themselves wouldn't be defending her or protecting her from harm, they'd basically be putting themselves in harms way to rebuke someone for their behaviour. I don't know if you genuinely think the world is that simple but the likely outcome is, at best, you're told to f**k off and what you say has no effect on these guys whatsoever and, at worst, you get assaulted for it.

I'm sure it makes you feel good to insinuate what you would do in that situation in an internet post though.

It'd be interesting to hear about all the times you've faced a similar situation and what you did.

[throbber]

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Obviously you'll never miss an opportunity to be indignant about something but it seems pretty clear from the story that the girl wasn't in any kind of continuing danger after the incident happened.

Anyone involving themselves wouldn't be defending her or protecting her from harm, they'd basically be putting themselves in harms way to rebuke someone for their behaviour. I don't know if you genuinely think the world is that simple but the likely outcome is, at best, you're told to f**k off and what you say has no effect on these guys whatsoever and, at worst, you get assaulted for it.

I'm sure it makes you feel good to insinuate what you would do in that situation in an internet post though.

It'd be interesting to hear about all the times you've faced a similar situation and what you did.

I’m not sure about the best case scenario being told to f**k off tbh, if you had a right go at the guy in front of his mates the guy could easily be embarrassed and shut the f**k up whilst his mates didn’t know where to look. Have seen that happen under similar circumstances before.