Sarah Everard

[Fratelli]

I've had similar conversations with lassies i have worked with or lived with in Uni halls, i was absolutely blown away by the fact that pretty much every single one of them had some sort of story of being approached/groped/followed/stalked etc with a couple of fucking horrific stories of full blown sexual assaults in the middle of nightclub dance floors in clear view of others. I think most men acknowledge that stuff like this goes on, but most of us have absolutely no idea how common it is, and that seemingly normal lads can be complete creeps. 

[Donathan]

Was talking to some girl mates about simple changes we as non-violent men can make to help women feel more safe walking home at night, e.g. crossing the road to avoid a woman feeling that she’s being followed etc.

That stuff is really simple, costs nothing and might make a girl’s night a bit less uncomfortable.

But I guess it doesn’t really do anything to address the actual problem of violent men. I’m not sure what the answer is out there.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Tbf I’m on board with Gordon S’ idea that anyone who posts ‘wid’ on P&B faces an immediate ban. That’ll be half the creepy middle-aged men gone and the board would be better for it.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

"The economics of risk"...

You're OFTW, pal. Away and put your Piers Morgan's Greatest Hits video on.

A phrase hasn't made sense to you so you've dished out an insult.

[GordonS]

It's an arresting thought that it's statistically likely that you personally know, or have known, a rapist. One in five women in the UK say that have been raped or seriously sexually assaulted as an adult, with about one in 30 saying it happened in the past year.

A third of people in Briton don't think it's rape if there was no violence, while a quarter don't regard rape in a long-term relationship as rape, even when consent is withheld and force is used.

We think we're all grown up about this stuff but we're still in the fkn dark ages.

[GordonS]

5 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

A phrase hasn't made sense to you so you've dished out an insult.

I know exactly what it means, that's why I genuinely think you're a frightening person.

You'll try to paint this as a "free speech" thing but it's not, it's a d"dangerous attitudes to sexual violence" thing.

I feel sorry for the women that are around you. And I've got nothing else to say to you.

[GordonS]

7 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Tbf I’m on board with Gordon S’ idea that anyone who posts ‘wid’ on P&B faces an immediate ban. That’ll be half the creepy middle-aged men gone and the board would be better for it.

I never said that.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

I know exactly what it means, that's why I genuinely think you're a frightening person.

You'll try to paint this as a "free speech" thing but it's not, it's a d"dangerous attitudes to sexual violence" thing.

I feel sorry for the women that are around you. And I've got nothing else to say to you.

What does it mean then? I'm genuinely interested if you've interpreted it how I intended it because it seems absolutely innocuous to me. I genuinely think you've misunderstood me on that one (and on most of what I have said, to be honest).

Definitely not about to launch into a free speech thing. That's just you chucking another buzzword at me in the hope it will stick.

[GordonS]

13 minutes ago, Fratelli said:

I've had similar conversations with lassies i have worked with or lived with in Uni halls, i was absolutely blown away by the fact that pretty much every single one of them had some sort of story of being approached/groped/followed/stalked etc with a couple of fucking horrific stories of full blown sexual assaults in the middle of nightclub dance floors in clear view of others. I think most men acknowledge that stuff like this goes on, but most of us have absolutely no idea how common it is, and that seemingly normal lads can be complete creeps. 

That's what I found. That pal we all laughed at for being a bit of a sexpest? When we weren't watching he probably was a sexpest. Who do we think is doing these things if not guys we know?

[parsforlife]

I’m a bit conflicted in this debate.

Attacks on women are so obviously horrific.  We don’t need to debate that.  The men who carry out such things are absolute scum, again there’s no need for debate.

But in the same regard,  that doesn’t mean you should be fearful about going through perfectly normal activities, and nor does it make that fear rational.  We know the statistics,  Feelings don’t negate facts.   Being fearful of something so statistically rare isn’t sensible, and shouldn’t be treated as such.

I know there’s talk that’s attacks on men don’t dismiss attracts on women, which is very much true,  but then you also need to account that attacks on men are more likely to be by a stranger than attacks on women.  It just makes the idea of ‘I’m scared any man will attack me’ less sensible.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I never said that.

Well your idea of ‘not tolerating bad attitudes towards women’ was just very general so I was trying to assist with the specifics. 

Also slightly concerning that you are mates with a suspected ‘sex pest’.
 

[Fratelli]

12 minutes ago, GordonS said:

That's what I found. That pal we all laughed at for being a bit of a sexpest? When we weren't watching he probably was a sexpest. Who do we think is doing these things if not guys we know?

Aye, It's much easier for us to sit with the idea that the men who act like complete wronguns towards lassies are all the stereotypical, caricature creepy weirdo types, complete outliers and not like us, rather than to think about the fact that they might be pals, colleagues, family members etc.

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Well your idea of ‘not tolerating bad attitudes towards women’ was just very general so I was trying to assist with the specifics. 

Also slightly concerning that you are mates with a suspected ‘sex pest’.
 

It would waste less time if you read what I actually wrote and responded to that, instead of filling in the blanks for yourself.

He's not my friend any more. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of us have known a guy in our group of friends who was much more leery than the rest and constantly chasing women. We maybe thought it was funny at the time, but in hindsight, not so much.

If you don't, it might mean that it's you. 

[GordonS]

Tweet I just saw, relevant to the "tackle the fear" drivel.

[Honest Saints Fan]

It is scary the amount of women who have experienced some kind of sexual harassment. 

When I was 15 an older man who I did not know somehow obtained my mobile number and would masturbate down the phone to me whilst describing exactly what I was wearing that day, knowing what I had been up to, the route I walked home from school etc. I went to the police who told me to change my number. I was genuinely scared some creep was stalking me and they made me feel so stupid I left the police station crying.

That was 15 years ago but I would hope that if a young girl experienced that now someone would take it more seriously.

[GordonS]

12 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I’m a bit conflicted in this debate.

Attacks on women are so obviously horrific.  We don’t need to debate that.  The men who carry out such things are absolute scum, again there’s no need for debate.

But in the same regard,  that doesn’t mean you should be fearful about going through perfectly normal activities, and nor does it make that fear rational.  We know the statistics,  Feelings don’t negate facts.   Being fearful of something so statistically rare isn’t sensible, and shouldn’t be treated as such.

I know there’s talk that’s attacks on men don’t dismiss attracts on women, which is very much true,  but then you also need to account that attacks on men are more likely to be by a stranger than attacks on women.  It just makes the idea of ‘I’m scared any man will attack me’ less sensible.

It's not rare. Something that happens to one in five women in the UK - and a much higher proportion around the world - can't be described as rare.

[8MileBU]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

I asked the women on our pals' WhatsApp group tonight if they were willing to share their stories and all of them had at least one. Stalking, groping, threatening behaviour, being corners by two men and forced into giving a phone number, getting followed. None of them have really bad stories, none have had abusive partners or been seriously sexually assaulted, though all but one know someone who's been raped. Men don't have much idea how much of this goes on because women talk to each other about it, not to us, and it's not like men talk to each other about the raping they've done.

Really don’t know what to make of this. Personally I know I would and think most other folk I know male and female would all find it really fucking bizarre and frankly quite unsettling if this topic was just randomly raised for discussion on a friends WhatsApp group chat. 

22 minutes ago, GordonS said:

"The economics of risk"...

You're OFTW, pal. Away and put your Piers Morgan's Greatest Hits video on.

Nae need for that. 

9 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I know exactly what it means, that's why I genuinely think you're a frightening person.

You'll try to paint this as a "free speech" thing but it's not, it's a d"dangerous attitudes to sexual violence" thing.

I feel sorry for the women that are around you. And I've got nothing else to say to you.

And nae need for this either. I can’t figure out whether you’re not understanding or misinterpreting what’s been said, but you’re definitely lashing out with some nasty insinuations.

[Michael W]

30 minutes ago, Donathan said:

But I guess it doesn’t really do anything to address the actual problem of violent men. I’m not sure what the answer is out there.

This is a problem that's unsolvable. You can educate people until you're blue in the face that violence (including gender-based violence) is wrong and women aren't sex objects but there will always be some that won't hear it or just have naturally violent tendancies. It's not something you can eliminate, unfortunately. Violent men exist and some will attack other men and some will attack women. I have no idea how you try and minimise incidents like this one. 

 

I don't think the police have helped matters here either. Putting aside that the suspect has probably been subject to developed vetting background checks given his role in diplomatic protection, what kind of message are you sending when you tell woman not to go out alone after 9pm? Thats a ridiculous position to take - it shouldn't be like that. 

[Priti priti priti Patel]

7 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Tweet I just saw, relevant to the "tackle the fear" drivel.

The eminent logic here is that if the fear experienced by Group A is vastly disproportionate to the risk, then any measures taken which are proportionate to that fear will themselves be vastly disproportionate to the risk. Therefore, people in Group B who believe the fear is overblown will prioritise getting the fear into proportion before being able to endorse responsive measures. That's what Group B will do whether or not their assessment of the risk is actually correct.

It's also obvious that measures taken which are perceived by a sizeable number of people to be vastly disproportionate, will engender all kinds of negative emotional responses, such as feeling victimised, ignored, isolated etc. That's going to be the response whether or not the underlying risk assessment is accurate, and it's going to jeopardise longer term progress in tackling the issue.

Similar feelings will be experienced by those who think the risk is far greater than the response, i.e. that the response is smaller than it should be.

All of which makes it crucial to properly appraise the economics of risk. But I still think you don't understand what I mean by that phrase.

[Thereisalight..]

One of my cousins is an avid hill walker and goes on solo climbs around Ayrshire. She always has her ipod on but takes a pair of scissors "just incase she needs to stab a would be rapist" 

*those were her actual words 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Thereisalight..