Sarah Everard

[Abdul_Latif]

29 minutes ago, plodofthenorth said:

Sadly, I would agree with all of this and I don't think it's insignificant. A big chunk is up to the police to try and fix this and to make people feel safe again. I would admit it is a failing on our part and that something has to change to address it.

One of our best pals is a police officer, and we do not doubt he and you do your absolute best to uphold values we expect, but it’s the fear of those that don’t that overwhelms. 
 

Tragic, though it is, I hope this is the turning point.

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, plodofthenorth said:

I have never seen anyone "ostracised" for doing this for a genuine issue. I would also agree with you over ridiculous comments from some of our senior management. However, you seem to be be happy throwing criticism without giving any suggestions for how to improve matters.

 

 

2 hours ago, plodofthenorth said:

I wasn't trying to go good cops v bad cops, I was only giving my opinion. I have called out bad behaviour, and it has been dealt with accordingly. Corruption is an another matter and is dealt with by a unit which is incredibly unpopular with other officers. In  fact it was so unpopular that the Sunday mail (apologies) ran a story criticising it for doing the very thing it was set up to do. I am genuinely interested to hear your views on how you would like reform to be carried out. I think that it is the right time for open and honest conversations to be had about how the public would like to be policed.

These two bolded bits seem to be at odds with each other. I’m also not convinced that we need to have a detailed plan for police reform in order to criticise current police practice. 

[NotThePars]

4 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Btw what we really need is to help men of any age or job recognise signs of red flags in both their own and others behaviour, how to change that behaviour or report it and how to respect women. 

Well sure but given the kidnap was able to happen so brazenly was because the person was a police officer. So reform needs to be made specifically there. It remains to be seen if that will happen and the disgraceful comments from several figures doesn't bode well, does it?

[Shotgun]

5 hours ago, plodofthenorth said:

However, you seem to be be happy throwing criticism without giving any suggestions for how to improve matters.

And there folks, is the problem in a nutshell. Here's one of the proverbial "good cops" telling us that it's not up to the police to come up with a solution for the racism, homophobia, misogyny, corruption and criminality endemic within law enforcement. That's our responsibility.

Nothing to see here, Couzens wasn't a real police officer, Everard shouldn't have been out, women need to handle these situation betters, the police do a fine job.

And don't criticise us unless you have a solution for the problem neither the government or the police top brass are willing to admit exists.

[pawpar]

11 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Those comments from the Yorkshire commissioner say it all. The police aren't upset about the kidnap, rape and murder of a defenceless women. They are upset because it is one of their own has been sent down.

If Johnson has the slightest backbone, he should have made Priti Patel sack Cressida Dick on the spot yesterday and then promptly sacked Patel himself.

Considering Boris Johnson has had sexual allegations against him there is not much chance against that happening.

And this

https://time.com/5689788/boris-johnson-charlotte-edwardes-jennifer-arcuri/

Still England and Cuddly Boris are great unlike in Scotland where there are more stricter measures against sexual offenders. 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by pawpar

[Benjamin_Nevis]

And there folks, is the problem in a nutshell. Here's one of the proverbial "good cops" telling us that it's not up to the police to come up with a solution for the racism, homophobia, misogyny, corruption and criminality endemic within law enforcement. That's our responsibility.
Nothing to see here, Couzens wasn't a real police officer, Everard shouldn't have been out, women need to handle these situation betters, the police do a fine job.
And don't criticise us unless you have a solution for the problem neither the government or the police top brass are willing to admit exists.

Perhaps the Police would like us all to change our Facebook profile pics to thin blue line badges. That'll sort it.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[energyzone]

And there folks, is the problem in a nutshell. Here's one of the proverbial "good cops" telling us that it's not up to the police to come up with a solution for the racism, homophobia, misogyny, corruption and criminality endemic within law enforcement. That's our responsibility.
Nothing to see here, Couzens wasn't a real police officer, Everard shouldn't have been out, women need to handle these situation betters, the police do a fine job.
And don't criticise us unless you have a solution for the problem neither the government or the police top brass are willing to admit exists.

At no point did he say it wasn't the responsibility of the police to solve the issue. He even backed it up with this before you replied:-

Sadly, I would agree with all of this and I don't think it's insignificant. A big chunk is up to the police to try and fix this and to make people feel safe again. I would admit it is a failing on our part and that something has to change to address it.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

That somewhat contradicts his complaint about me criticising the police without providing the solutions [emoji23]

His long post was basically a plod version of #notallmen


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[Jambomo]

4 hours ago, Shotgun said:

And there folks, is the problem in a nutshell. Here's one of the proverbial "good cops" telling us that it's not up to the police to come up with a solution for the racism, homophobia, misogyny, corruption and criminality endemic within law enforcement. That's our responsibility.

Nothing to see here, Couzens wasn't a real police officer, Everard shouldn't have been out, women need to handle these situation betters, the police do a fine job.

And don't criticise us unless you have a solution for the problem neither the government or the police top brass are willing to admit exists.

That isn’t at all what he is saying.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Jambomo

[bendan]

22 hours ago, Meldrew said:

there are thousands of service police officers who's application would've been in the bin after the 1st round back when they could afford to be more selective.

Yes, but they would mostly be the female and ethnic-minority officers.

I'm not surprised at all that we end up with police officers like this, but to me it's just a refection of the wider society. And I don't think Scotland is much different to England.

I'm in my fifties now, but when I was younger pretty much every sphere of male life was dominated by misogynistic, racist, homophobic bullies. It wouldn't have been difficult for a psychopath to hide amongst them. Certainly easier than standing up to them.

I was away from the UK for a long time, and to me the police seem to have improved in some ways but regressed in others, just like the rest of society.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

4 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Well sure but given the kidnap was able to happen so brazenly was because the person was a police officer. So reform needs to be made specifically there. It remains to be seen if that will happen and the disgraceful comments from several figures doesn't bode well, does it?

The disgraceful comments were from an idiot Tory politician and an idiot Commissioner, from what ive read from police officers very few agree with anything either said and are absolutely cringing at their outbursts. I think theres a very genuine appetite amongst the police to support a change to stop gender based violence and if its the police who change first to help society see that its possible then brilliant lets go. 

[dirty dingus]

They had a former police commissioner on the Today show Lord something or other trying to say any enquiry into misogyny in the police force shouldn't have a judicial inquiry and outside forces shouldn't investigate incidents outwith their divisions. Why are the so worried about scrutiny?

[Bairnardo]

Some of the police/politician comments have been staggering, but I get the impression in most case there is something more they want to say.... I can only imagine how crass these people would go, were they not being restrained.

We live in a country where "women can flag a bus down" is probably, IMO, someone holding back.

[Thorongil]

As a normal man who has never been violent in my life, I instinctively get annoyed at the stereotyping of men as violent, bad, dangerous, potential rapists, potentially killers etc. Also because of my entirely innocent son; I don’t like the idea of him being judged in such a way either as he grows up. 

The idea that I need to acknowledge guilt or responsibility for the violent crimes of others I still reject entirely. 

HOWEVER. Women do not kidnap men on the street and kill them. They are far less likely to kill or sexually assault someone. The bulk of this problem of evil and violence does reside in the male population. 

I want to know and understand what causes it. What is it in this tiny sub group of men that makes them violent towards women? There must be a driving force, a reason, something that can be tackled in some way in order to reduce the risk of harm. But what is it? 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Thorongil

[SlipperyP]

10 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Btw what we really need is to help men of any age or job recognise signs of red flags in both their own and others behaviour, how to change that behaviour or report it and how to respect women. 

Unfortunately, we live, I and you,  in a society of nobody likes a grass.  Where do we draw the line?

I personally knew a guy that was a creepy fucker that worked in social services, and had no problem calling the gaffer to have a look/word with him (I worked in a complete different department at the time).  Then, I  was also partaking in recreation drugs on most nights during my working time at the same place. Should someone called me out?

It's a really tricky line. 

Snitches get stiches, is real, ok, they may not all get stiches, but they do get ostracized in the working environment.  Talk to anyone who works on a factory/call centre, they all know who not to speak to before there the end of their first week in employment.  I'm sure it's so much worse in places of police/arm services.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

4 minutes ago, SlipperyP said:

Unfortunately, we live, I and you,  in a society of nobody likes a grass.  Where do we draw the line?

I personally knew a guy that was a creepy fucker that worked in social services, and had no problem calling the gaffer to have a look/word with him (I worked in a complete different department at the time).  Then, I  was also partaking in recreation drugs on most nights during my working time at the same place. Should someone called me out?

It's a really tricky line. 

Snitches get stiches, is real, ok, they may not all get stiches, but they do get ostracized in the working environment.  Talk to anyone who works on a factory/call centre, they all know who not to speak to before there the end of their first week in employment.  I'm sure it's so much worse in places of police/arm services.

The only guy I ever heard of in the relatively small place I was a PC who said something racist etc and displayed overly aggressive tendencies was working with a boy i had helped through their probation. From the very start I told him not to worry about flagging up troubling behaviour and he had no issues reporting it and didnt get any issue with ‘closing ranks’ etc. Guy was forced to resign not long after an investigation. Ive never seen a single issue around anyone reporting troubling behaviour or anything similar. The boys club mentality is toxic and not something I encountered but recognise it must exist in some places. 

[101]

23 hours ago, throbber said:

I’m intrigued to know how his work colleagues knew he liked extreme porn anyway.

 

I would presume he would have had to disclose it in his clearing process to join the protection team.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

17 minutes ago, 101 said:

I would presume he would have had to disclose it in his clearing process to join the protection team.

He wouldnt have been vetted to the level where you have that kind of interview, the highest level of vetting is called ‘Developed Vetting’ costs thousands and is not routinely conducted for every job in police/fire/borders/civil service, its generally reserved for counter terrorism intelligence, national security, senior managers who may authorise certain things etc. I actually think that everyone should be vetted to the highest level, polygraph testing, character interviews but the cost and time involved is massive. Its also not done by police officers, this type of vetting is done by a specialist government department. 

[SlipperyP]

41 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The only guy I ever heard of in the relatively small place I was a PC who said something racist etc and displayed overly aggressive tendencies was working with a boy i had helped through their probation. From the very start I told him not to worry about flagging up troubling behaviour and he had no issues reporting it and didnt get any issue with ‘closing ranks’ etc. Guy was forced to resign not long after an investigation. Ive never seen a single issue around anyone reporting troubling behaviour or anything similar. The boys club mentality is toxic and not something I encountered but recognise it must exist in some places. 

I've read that about 4 times now. Please if i'm wrong, so be it.

1. You told a probation officer to not worry about racist comments from an other officer?

2. Who was forced to resign? The the racist or the new officer?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, SlipperyP said:

I've read that about 4 times now. Please if i'm wrong, so be it.

1. You told a probation officer to not worry about racist comments from an other officer?

2. Who was forced to resign? The the racist or the new officer?

Lol no, I told him to not worry about reporting it as in ‘its the right thing to do’ and that he had my support (he had everyone on his teams support too btw). 
The racist was forced to resign. 
I’d like to think that its pretty obvious from  my posting on here that i’ve no time for racism etc.