Future progression and development of the WOSFL

[Pyramidic]

39 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

It's more to do with the fact that senior Scottish football has largely been moving away from the Balkanised mess it always has been towards a unified structure that makes sense, is fair and offers clubs the chance to find the level they should be playing at. The SoSFL existing at tier 6 is a bit of a historical/geographical anachronism that nobody would suggest if we were starting with a blank page.

I think that the position of the SOSFL will eventually resolve itself by the SOSFL clubs themselves wanting a pathway into the WOSFL rather than continuing with a “fantasy link” into the LL where clubs would soon overreach themselves if a SOSFL club ever got promoted through a playoff system. The divergence in standards between the LL and SOSFL is likely to become a bridge too far.

The other interesting aspect is the destination chosen by clubs like Gretna and Dalbeattie if they get relegated from the LL.  Competitive football in the WOSFL Premier or languishing in the idyllic backwaters of the SOSFL. Not an easy choice.

In the meantime it should be business as normal for the SOSFL in my opinion.

[Gordon EF]

4 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

The other interesting aspect is the destination chosen by clubs like Gretna and Dalbeattie if they get relegated from the LL.  Competitive football in the WOSFL Premier or languishing in the idyllic backwaters of the SOSFL. Not an easy choice.

I'd have thought WoSFL would be a no-brainer for them.

[FairWeatherFan]

20 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I'd have thought WoSFL would be a no-brainer for them.

Nowadays certainly. Older version of the EoSFL basically being Borders/Edinburgh wouldn't be that different than Ayrshire/Glasgow. With the EoSFL now stretching  North into Fife / Perth & Kinross there's more distance to be covered.

[Gordon EF]

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Nowadays certainly. Older version of the EoSFL basically being Borders/Edinburgh wouldn't be that different than Ayrshire/Glasgow. With the EoSFL now stretching  North into Fife / Perth & Kinross there's more distance to be covered.

Aye, WoSFL will mean more distance than the SoSFL but it'd still be less distance than the LL for Gretna or Dalbeattie.

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Aye, WoSFL will mean more distance than the SoSFL but it'd still be less distance than the LL for Gretna or Dalbeattie.

From LL to WoSFL doesn't save as much travel time for a SoS club as some people think. Especially for a club like Gretna.

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

From LL to WoSFL doesn't save as much travel time for a SoS club as some people think. Especially for a club like Gretna.

Aye, I wouldn't have thought so but I mean more of LL travel isn't a problem for them then WoSFL shouldn't be.

[San Starko Rover]

From LL to WoSFL doesn't save as much travel time for a SoS club as some people think. Especially for a club like Gretna.

LL will start to change soon anyway as its East dominated right now, only a matter of time before West teams are promoted or indeed relegated into the LL. With the Best of the EOS, WOS, LL and SOS combined with any droppers from the SPFL it should become a cracking league in the next 5-10 years. Certainly will nullify the SPFLs reasons for not relegating team 42 due to the strength of the LL.

[Pyramidic]

Sound words!

[FairWeatherFan]

10 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Sound words!

Had no idea who that was and noticed Glasgow Wellington in their profile. A club that I would describe at the minute as the Loche Ness of the South (t-shirt company/social media entity right now). Who have previously had some banter on their social media about applying to the WoSFL.

Edited March 16, 2021 by FairWeatherFan

[Pyramidic]

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Had know idea who that was and noticed Glasgow Wellington in their profile. A club that I would describe at the minute as the Loche Ness of the South (t-shirt company/social media entity right now). Who have previously had some banter on their social media about applying to the WoSFL.

Picked it up on the EOSFL Twitter!

[cmontheloknow]

10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Had know idea who that was and noticed Glasgow Wellington in their profile. A club that I would describe at the minute as the Loche Ness of the South (t-shirt company/social media entity right now). Who have previously had some banter on their social media about applying to the WoSFL.

Rose has played both Junior and Senior non-league over the last decade or so.

[Pyramidic]

At the moment any club applying to join the WOSFL will have to meet the following ground criteria:

https://wosfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/WOSFL_-Entry-Criteria-2020.pdf
 

This is a “tough ask” for many aspiring Amateur Clubs despite allowing for some concessions that may be agreed by league officials for the opening season.

A case can be made for an additional set of “starter” ground criteria that could be set down by the League specifically for clubs entering at say Tier 10 in what effectively would be a Development Division(s).

If we look at what happened at Step 7 down south, these are the sort of parameters that could be established (obviously with some strengthening):

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/get-involved/2020/ground-grading/regional-nls-feeder-league-min-requirements-july-2020.ashx?la=en

The link between Amateur Football and the WOSFL can be better facilitated with the creation of a Development Division (or possibly two conferences covering North and South) in which teams can be promoted to Tier 9 if they finish in a promotion place and can meet the standard ground grading criteria.

This in my view is how progression may take place - a Development Division for Amateur and Youth set-ups - where clubs can be “incubated” to progress to the higher more demanding semi-professional level.

[Dev]

3 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

At the moment any club applying to join the WOSFL will have to meet the following ground criteria:

https://wosfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/WOSFL_-Entry-Criteria-2020.pdf
 

This is a “tough ask” for many aspiring Amateur Clubs despite allowing for some concessions that may be agreed by league officials for the opening season.

A case can be made for an additional set of “starter” ground criteria that could be set down by the League specifically for clubs entering at say Tier 10 in what effectively would be a Development Division(s).

If we look at what happened at Step 7 down south, these are the sort of parameters that could be established (obviously with some strengthening):

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/get-involved/2020/ground-grading/regional-nls-feeder-league-min-requirements-july-2020.ashx?la=en

The link between Amateur Football and the WOSFL can be better facilitated with the creation of a Development Division (or possibly two conferences covering North and South) in which teams can be promoted to Tier 9 if they finish in a promotion place and can meet the standard ground grading criteria.

This in my view is how progression may take place - a Development Division for Amateur and Youth set-ups - where clubs can be “incubated” to progress to the higher more demanding semi-professional level.

Down South some Development League have needed to include Development/Reserve teams from clubs already in the Pyramid in order to make up the numbers for a viable Division. Not sure how this may work with e.g. Ayrshire amateurs/youth who may not be keen on travelling outside their area.

[Pyramidic]

2 minutes ago, Dev said:

Down South some Development League have needed to include Development/Reserve teams from clubs already in the Pyramid in order to make up the numbers for a viable Division. Not sure how this may work with e.g. Ayrshire amateurs/youth who may not be keen on travelling outside their area.

A couple of weeks ago parkcircus indicated that there were 14 clubs (mostly Amateur) that had expressed an interest in joining the WOSFL. I think the interest is there but the problem we all know is identifying a suitable ground or bringing an existing venue up to an appropriate standard. Travelling outside the regular area could be an issue but if a Development  Section at Tier 10 was started with two small regionalised conferences (say each with 10 teams) the problem might be addressed at the outset.

There are all sorts of permutations that could be followed. New clubs that join from South Ayrshire might eventually “work” with the SOSFL as part of the arrangement for bringing the SOSFL into the fold as a feeder league to the WOSFL.

[FairWeatherFan]

Here's an interview with the new Chair Matt Bamford. Just started watching it, so don't know exactly what will be said.

Recorded on the 9th March. Expressions of interest were at 17 on the 7th March, but that included some of the East Juniors. Only Harthill get name checked as still having a choice from the East Juniors.

Edited March 17, 2021 by FairWeatherFan

[Pyramidic]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Here's an interview with the new Chair Matt Bamford. Just started watching it, so don't know exactly what will be said.

Recorded on the 9th March. Expressions of interest were at 17 on the 7th March, but that included some of the East Juniors. Only Harthill get name checked as still having a choice from the East Juniors.

Plenty of time over the next couple of months to continue to work on fine-tuning the incredible re-structuring that is taking place.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Pyramidic

[Pyramidic]

On 16/03/2021 at 11:56, Pyramidic said:

If we look at what happened at Step 7 down south, these are the sort of parameters that could be established (obviously with some strengthening):

https://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/get-involved/2020/ground-grading/regional-nls-feeder-league-min-requirements-july-2020.ashx?la=en

This is an example of a Step 7 league down South that uses slightly tougher ground grading requirements. Perhaps food for thought if the WOSFL are considering staggering the entry requirements for Amateur and Youth sides:

https://countyleague.co.uk/downloads/Ground_Grading_Criteria.doc

[Malty Guy]

On 08/03/2021 at 12:11, Pyramidic said:

But there appears to be plenty of room for flexibility and common sense in rule 26:

“The Office Bearers/Board may, entirely at their discretion, offer any applicant a pre-defined period of grace to meet any of the above criteria should they so decide.”
 

With reference to rule 13 they appear to be the criteria set down by the EOSFL and we know the flexibility that the EOSFL showed in allowing Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts  to join their league some three years ago.

Is enacting the above rules to take account of clubs circumstances a good demonstration of ‘One size doesn’t fit all’

personally I’m thinking it is.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 15/03/2021 at 12:19, Bad Wolf said:

The SOS doesn't cover a small area, it covers a bloody huge one. Yes, indeed, the standard may not be high, as the small population naturally means a small player pool. I remain to be convinced that it deserves to be moved down a level because people whose idea of a "big" game is playing their neighbours from three miles down the road think it should be. I don't mean you personally, btw, I mean this site's "SOS bad"-bots in general.

Yeah, I cannot comment on the standard of the SOS as I've only seen a few teams play over the years, I think now, if the standard is such a big gulf then during the playoffs there might be some big heavy humiliating defeats, if not then SOS teams might win and get through, only time will tell.  I will say if its the first, heavy defeats continuously though each season at the playoffs then I think all leagues will eventually have meetings to see the best proposal but again, there's no rush, plenty of years to go to change the level of the SOS if everyone thinks that's the best way to go.
 

I think its the same about the LL,  there is no rush as it will sort itself out. The LL is a bit of a bottle neck with top teams vying for one out and out place to the LL, which I do think is wrong. There are teams in the LL that look quite weak but i cannot confirm this as haven't seen them but again, time will tell, eventually these teams will be relegated if true and stronger powerful teams will take their place, it will be hard for the relegated teams to return as the standard below is strong.  These relegated teams could be from the SOSFL, EOSFL and or the WOSFL but i get the feeling in 5 or so years the leagues will be sorted and most teams will be where or near where they should be 

[Hillonearth]

16 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Yeah, I cannot comment on the standard of the SOS as I've only seen a few teams play over the years, I think now, if the standard is such a big gulf then during the playoffs there might be some big heavy humiliating defeats, if not then SOS teams might win and get through, only time will tell.  I will say if its the first, heavy defeats continuously though each season at the playoffs then I think all leagues will eventually have meetings to see the best proposal but again, there's no rush, plenty of years to go to change the level of the SOS if everyone thinks that's the best way to go.
 

I think its the same about the LL,  there is no rush as it will sort itself out. The LL is a bit of a bottle neck with top teams vying for one out and out place to the LL, which I do think is wrong. There are teams in the LL that look quite weak but i cannot confirm this as haven't seen them but again, time will tell, eventually these teams will be relegated if true and stronger powerful teams will take their place, it will be hard for the relegated teams to return as the standard below is strong.  These relegated teams could be from the SOSFL, EOSFL and or the WOSFL but i get the feeling in 5 or so years the leagues will be sorted and most teams will be where or near where they should be 

Yeah, there are fair few teams currently in the lower reaches of the LL who if we're being honest are probably on borrowed time there and unlikely to return once the stronger ex-junior teams start filtering through...but like you say there is no rush as it'll eventually sort itself out.

Truth is though that for a variety of reasons some of them stuck their heads above the parapet much quicker than some much more immediately-recognisable names did, and while some might feel that the resolution of the current logjam and the anomaly of some much weaker teams currently sitting above stronger ones is taking too long, that's just an accident of the way the pyramid has evolved since its inception.