Next non-Old Firm title winner

[realmadrid]

17 hours ago, gannonball said:

Depends who it is tbh but the gulf in budgets is way under what Leicester would have had (talking well over a hundred million you would assume) when they won the EPL. Same could have been said for Atletico Madrid a few years ago also would say. Aberdeen just need two teams to have an off season where as Leicester needed about 4 teams who are season as proper title contenders. 
It would still be a notable and outstanding achievement but it would be nowhere near Leicesters one imo.

The gulf in budgets is way over what is in England

What was Celtic's last wage budget?

St Johnstone have just won the league cup with a player budget of 2 to 3 million in wages, I would guess Celtic will be 10 to 20 times that?

 

[gannonball]

25 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

The gulf in budgets is way over what is in England

What was Celtic's last wage budget?

St Johnstone have just won the league cup with a player budget of 2 to 3 million in wages, I would guess Celtic will be 10 to 20 times that?

 

Im not talking about St. Johnstone winning the league though? Im talking about Aberdeen who also have a budget several times St.Johnstone. St Johnstone winning the league, yes that would definitely eclipse Leicester but doubt anybody would dispute that.

[wastecoatwilly]

5 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Im not talking about St. Johnstone winning the league though? Im talking about Aberdeen who also have a budget several times St.Johnstone. St Johnstone winning the league, yes that would definitely eclipse Leicester but doubt anybody would dispute that.

I agree,it's not impossible for Aberdeen to get about 90 points in the league to ask the question.

[SelkirkSaint]

Any diddy team winning the league has to start by being the best of the diddies. By quite a bit. Don't lose to the other teams and it comes down how you do against the OF. A good team could push the OF but not if they're losing games to  Hamilton, Ross County and whoever else.

Drop less points against the diddies, have a couple of good results against the OF and you've given yourself a chance.

Edited April 8, 2021 by SelkirkSaint

[topcat(The most tip top)]

18 hours ago, gannonball said:

Aberdeen just need two teams to have an off season where as Leicester needed about 4 teams who are season as proper title contenders. 

On the other hand England may have a few more heavyweights but it's also got an awful  lot more middleweights so there's a lot more chances for one of them to pick the right year to punch well above their weight.

The fact that Leicester in particular did it is amazing, the fact that one of several clubs like Leicester did it is less so 




 

Edited April 8, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[DukDukGoose]

13 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

On the other hand England may have a few more heavyweights but it's also got an awful  lot more middleweights so there's a lot more chances for one of them to pick the right year to punch well above their weight.

The fact that Leicester in particular did it is amazing, the fact that one of several clubs like Leicester did it is less so 




 

Exactly.

Tie in to the fact Leicester had several internationals or coveted players they managed to hold on to until the summer.

[Jacksgranda]

16 hours ago, CCB19035 said:

Rules in place long before, if I'm not mistaken. 
 

Edit; what no one ever mentions re AFC finishing bottom is the fact we'd have had to negotiate a play off, where we could've won. 
 

So, it wasn't a stick on relegation avoided, it was the avoidance of a relegation play off. 

You're wasting your time, some people just don't want to be educated.

Same as the faux outrage last season re Brora and Kelty being "denied promotion". No, they weren't. They were denied the chance of a promotion play off(s).

[big al]

8 hours ago, gannonball said:

Bullshit on what? What I said about the finances gap in England even turned out to be underestimated as proven by another poster. 

Aberdeen also have a huge wage bill compared to the likes of Hamilton etc so Im not too sure what your alluding to. The odds of Aberdeen winning the league generally aren’t astronomical like Leicesters was. I think the odds for Aberdeen to win the league the year Leicester did it were lower end double digits whilst Leicester were 5000/1. You simply cant ignore the difference in those odds.

Sorry, still not having it.

A team outside of Celtic and Sevco winning the title here would be a bigger achievement than Leicester winning in England.

Several of the top teams in England can beat each other so if 1 team has a great run then they have a good chance.

Virtually nobody can beat Celtic and Sevco up here due to the vast financial gulf. 
Most English premiership stadium are full bringing an intimidating atmosphere and more chance for the hone team.

In Scotland, half the time Celtic or Sevco are away they have way more fans at the game than the home team. 
 

That’s before we start on the gulf in finances which is multiple times more.

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by big al

[PauloPerth]

10 hours ago, gannonball said:

Bullshit on what? What I said about the finances gap in England even turned out to be underestimated as proven by another poster. 

Aberdeen also have a huge wage bill compared to the likes of Hamilton etc so Im not too sure what your alluding to. The odds of Aberdeen winning the league generally aren’t astronomical like Leicesters was. I think the odds for Aberdeen to win the league the year Leicester did it were lower end double digits whilst Leicester were 5000/1. You simply cant ignore the difference in those odds.

Yes I'm with the others here. At the time Leicester won the league there were comparisons to Scotland. The proportional difference between 1st and 2nd in Scotland (Celtic and Aberdeen that season I think) was far greater than between the top and bottom prize money in the English Premiership (possibly Sunderland bottom that season?).

For all our disdain up here about the way the EPL is all about money, they understand the importance of having a more competitive league to ensure attractiveness of the league for tv companies and foreign markets.  It's the rich foreign investment and champions league money that brings the big discrepancy down there which is harder to control.

[gannonball]

4 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Yes I'm with the others here. At the time Leicester won the league there were comparisons to Scotland. The proportional difference between 1st and 2nd in Scotland (Celtic and Aberdeen that season I think) was far greater than between the top and bottom prize money in the English Premiership (possibly Sunderland bottom that season?).

 

It wasn't though. Our wage bill was about 30 odd million under Deilas last season that you speak of. If you wish to go down the proportional route to try and put a better spin in on the actual amounts it still doesn't stack up what you are claiming.

[PauloPerth]

Here's the figures from down south for 2015-16:

 

 

So the 20th highest earners still ended up with 66% the prize money of the highest.  It's absolutely a far bigger achievement for any club other than the OF to win the title up here than it is for any club in the English Premiership to win the title.

[PauloPerth]

2 minutes ago, gannonball said:

It wasn't though. Our wage bill was about 30 odd million under Deilas last season that you speak of. If you wish to go down the proportional route to try and put a better spin in on the actual amounts it still doesn't stack up what you are claiming.

You've lost me.

What was Aberdeen's in comparison?

[jamamafegan]

I think it’s partly down to a mentality thing. Aberdeen had their big chance a few seasons ago and they blew it. Celtic were not at the races that season. Aberdeen recently as well only finished 9 points (3 wins) behind Celtic under Rodgers. I believe if a professional was brought in to deal with the mentality of the players, like they did at FK Bodø/Glimt in Norway, it might change the fortunes of a team if they can catch Celtic and Rangers on an off season. Leicester City were excellent in their title winning season but they took advantage of the other traditional top teams being quite poor.

The key thing is consistency and routinely beating lesser sides. Then you have to take points off the OF. Aberdeen were getting good at until the shat it.

[Raidernation]

Don’t forget referees.
The EPL doesn’t have the “issues” we have up here!

[RandomGuy.]

11 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

You've lost me.

What was Aberdeen's in comparison?

He's going down the route of a team with a £100m wage bill beating a team with a £200m wage bill being a better achievement than a team with a £10m wage bill beating a team with a £60m wage bill. Because a £100m gap is larger than £50m.

In January they signed Inler, who had over 100 appearances for Napoli in Serie A, was Switzerland captain, and had won a trophy with Napoli in the previous two seasons.

Leicesters wage bill that season was the 29th highest in Europe. Higher than Sevilla who went on to win the Europa League. Higher than Benfica who reached the Champions League Quarters. 

In terms of transfer fees they spent over £30m, more than Arsenal and Liverpool combined, and just £4m less than Man U.

It's nowhere near the same level as, say, us winning the league. We can't attract players at the peak of their powers from abroad, we can't compete in terms of transfer fees with Celtic/Rangers. Our wage bill will never be near the highest in Europe. Leicester was a great achievement, but when you're spending an absolute fortune on players, signing Internationals etc., you're always going to have a chance. In this division every club is effectively filled with dross, aside from two clubs who spend more every summer on transfer fees than the rest have spent combined in decades.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Celtic fans get awfully defensive when someone points out that their success, especially when Rangers were fannying about the seaside leagues, was entirely down to the huge financial disparity between themselves and everyone else. 

[gannonball]

12 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

You've lost me.

What was Aberdeen's in comparison?

About 6-7 million iirc correctly at the time 

9 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Celtic fans get awfully defensive when someone points out that their success, especially when Rangers were fannying about the seaside leagues, was entirely down to the huge financial disparity between themselves and everyone else. 

Eh? nobody is talking about Celtic's success but yes a lot of it was massively down to the financial gulf. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by gannonball

[Guest TheJTS98]

The Leicester comparison also forgets that the big teams in England have more other big rich teams to play against than the Old Firm do.

Take Leicester's title-winning season for example.

Arsenal dropped six points to Chelsea and three to Man United.

Man City dropped six against Spurs, six against Liverpool, five against Arsenal, and five against Man United.

Man United  dropped three to Arsenal, three to Spurs, two to Man City, four to Chelsea.

Spurs dropped three to Man United, four to Chelsea, four to Liverpool, four to Arsenal.

So, you can see that there's another consideration. The teams ahead of Leicester have more opportunities to drop points and a situation like this leaves the door open. There is no equivalent gang of teams in Scotland who the Old Firm will be likely to drop points to. In 2015-16's Premier League, we can see above that the bigger teams cut each others' throats. Nobody is performing that function in Scotland.

For a non-OF winner to emerge, they'll need to be exceptionally consistent against teams they don't financially out-muscle by a very big margin, then they'll need to be competitive head-to-head with two sides much, much richer than them, and they'll need the two rich sides to take points off each other and also drop enough points to far poorer sides.

It's not going to happen.

Edited April 10, 2021 by TheJTS98

[Sonam]

Even just a challenge, from Hearts, Aberdeen, any non old firm team to run Celtc/Rangers close would make it slightly more interesting. 

My hope is that Celtic & Rangers eventually sod off to some European mickey mouse mini league 2. Scottish football would be great without them. 

All this must be boring for old firm fans as well, each year, gap getting bigger due to huge financial advantage that increases every year. 

Yet every year the old firm fans cant help their massive over celebration in winning a financially fixed title, then the inevitable over praise by the media, when the financial advantage grows even more. How exciting!! BBC pundits were genuinely pleased when Celtic & Rangers back to thumping teams 5-0 / 4-0 (Hearts / Motherwell). 

[AndyM]

On 08/04/2021 at 19:30, gannonball said:

It wasn't though. Our wage bill was about 30 odd million under Deilas last season that you speak of. If you wish to go down the proportional route to try and put a better spin in on the actual amounts it still doesn't stack up what you are claiming.

Your wage bill was about 30 million under Delia and that was probably 5 times as much as Aberdeen's.  I know that Celtic and Rangers fans don't like us diddies talking budgets but you have to be realistic in what you can achieve when you are running on a fifth and usually much less of the biggest club.