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How Do We Solve a Problem Like Obesity?


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6 hours ago, coprolite said:

She's not trying to do an analysis of why she's struggling though. She's making the narrow point that when people quote ridiculous prices for a meal, that's not the full story. 

She really accomplished that point, by quoting a different set of ridiculous prices. 

Factoring the differing energy costs of cooking recipes (oven v microwave) is absolutely a valid point to raise; her superfluous, £40 blender and the monthly rent really are not.

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24 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

I meant on benefits rather than completely out of work.
As per the gov website and those min wage job numbers, you can make up the same amount on benefits as a single adult as you can in a min wage job. That's before add ons when being a single parent etc.

You really can't, unless your benefits are unusually firewalled from the wrath of the government's spiteful and incompetent policies. A full-time minimum wage job is absolutely preferable to benefits in terms of standard of living.

The key point is actually 'full time' here. Part-time and zero hours contracts are what really f**k over many in the most insecure and poorest paid jobs, not least when their employer implicitly expects (or demands) full flexibility to meet their needs. 

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25 minutes ago, virginton said:

You really can't, unless your benefits are unusually firewalled from the wrath of the government's spiteful and incompetent policies. A full-time minimum wage job is absolutely preferable to benefits in terms of standard of living.

The key point is actually 'full time' here. Part-time and zero hours contracts are what really f**k over many in the most insecure and poorest paid jobs, not least when their employer implicitly expects (or demands) full flexibility to meet their needs. 

The minimum wage for 23 + has just gone up to £9.50which was a big increase for employers to deal with.

Couple that with extra NI and more to auto enrolment pensions its a lot extra to bear.

Dont quite understand the big difference between 20 year olds and the above?

Maybe that should be looked at.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jeff Venom said:

I meant on benefits rather than completely out of work.
As per the gov website and those min wage job numbers, you can make up the same amount on benefits as a single adult as you can in a min wage job. That's before add ons when being a single parent etc.

Thinking about the part time situation a bit more, I still think is worthwhile working even if there's little financial difference.

Any work you can get will be experience and it's experience which can get you out of the situation you are in through better work opportunities.

It's probably not helpful for a person to be worrying about what the company owners are earning or what the Tories are doing to you when you are mired in the shite yourself. If it was me, and it HAS been me in the past, I'd be thinking a bit beyond the short term to where a few months of that work experience could then take me. The aim is to get to full time work and then build from there.

I've seen how working for free for a few months (I'm not suggesting people should do this but I could afford to do it to gain experience) directly led to me getting a permanent role. The point I'm getting at is that if you can get experience somehow, then take the opportunity if you can physically do it.

The single parent situation is another kettle of fish altogether because the lack of short term, flexible child care is the issue there. It's one thing being a fit 20 year old able to slum it on a friends couch for a few months to gain some experience. It's quite another when you have a baby to sort out as well. I can't see a way out of that trap.

Edited by oaksoft
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1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

The minimum wage for 23 + has just gone up to £9.50which was a big increase for employers to deal with.

Couple that with extra NI and more to auto enrolment pensions its a lot extra to bear.

Dont quite understand the big difference between 20 year olds and the above?

Maybe that should be looked at.

It's because they assume younger people will still be living at home with their parents rent-free.

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On 04/03/2021 at 12:00, G51 said:

It's not hard to see why people who are completely demoralised after spending 8 hours at a meaningless job stretching out a 2 hour task would rather spend the free time they have doing enjoyable things instead of things they are too tired for and can't be fucked doing.

If someone has just stretched a 2-hour task out to an 8-hour shift they shouldn't be very tired tbh. I think if I was their boss I'd be a bit pissed off.

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1 hour ago, milton75 said:

If someone has just stretched a 2-hour task out to an 8-hour shift they shouldn't be very tired tbh. I think if I was their boss I'd be a bit pissed off.

It's what ministers and Whitehall mandarins fail to anticipate every time. No matter how much they cut the real value of salaries, I can always find ways of doing less.

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Like absolutely everything, the people they're targeting will just navigate the hurdle and continue as usual. 

Everyone else is mildly inconvenienced. 

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1 hour ago, milton75 said:

If someone has just stretched a 2-hour task out to an 8-hour shift they shouldn't be very tired tbh. I think if I was their boss I'd be a bit pissed off.

I've had a few jobs where most of my day was spent doing meaningless activity to look busy, always at the boss' behest.

Spent almost a year reconditioning computers for a charity who were receiving funding from various sources; the idea was that we'd provide free machines for people on low incomes, and sell the rest. None of the PCs we reconditioned were ever sold or redistributed; by the time I quit, we were just being told to move things around from one place to another and re-do machines we'd already worked on so we'd look busy.

Another job fitting out work rooms; we'd start on the Monday to have them ready for the next week. As each room was finished, it was sealed off so everyone knew it wasn't to be used. Every single week, the bosses would realise they'd fucked up the schedule and would have the rooms stripped down so the equipment could be used elsewhere, so by the time Friday came around most of the rooms would need to be refitted over the weekend. Literally two days' work stretched out over six or seven due to chaotic disorganisation.

A retail job where one of the owners was obsessed with the idea that his underlings should never be still. If the shelves were stacked, paperwork was done, and everything else was clean, we were to mop the floor. Constant floor mopping, the net result of which was that the shop floor was always wet and filthy, as customer's shoes were getting washed on the wet floor and leaving the dirt behind. The smart move would've been to pay someone (literally) an extra couple of quid to stay behind for half an hour to clean the floor after closing, but having a clean shop clearly wasn't the actual point.

None of those businesses are still operating, strangely. For all the moaning some people like to do about the laziness of workers, there's nowhere near enough attention given to the rank incompetence of management.

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37 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I've had a few jobs where most of my day was spent doing meaningless activity to look busy, always at the boss' behest.

Spent almost a year reconditioning computers for a charity who were receiving funding from various sources; the idea was that we'd provide free machines for people on low incomes, and sell the rest. None of the PCs we reconditioned were ever sold or redistributed; by the time I quit, we were just being told to move things around from one place to another and re-do machines we'd already worked on so we'd look busy.

Another job fitting out work rooms; we'd start on the Monday to have them ready for the next week. As each room was finished, it was sealed off so everyone knew it wasn't to be used. Every single week, the bosses would realise they'd fucked up the schedule and would have the rooms stripped down so the equipment could be used elsewhere, so by the time Friday came around most of the rooms would need to be refitted over the weekend. Literally two days' work stretched out over six or seven due to chaotic disorganisation.

A retail job where one of the owners was obsessed with the idea that his underlings should never be still. If the shelves were stacked, paperwork was done, and everything else was clean, we were to mop the floor. Constant floor mopping, the net result of which was that the shop floor was always wet and filthy, as customer's shoes were getting washed on the wet floor and leaving the dirt behind. The smart move would've been to pay someone (literally) an extra couple of quid to stay behind for half an hour to clean the floor after closing, but having a clean shop clearly wasn't the actual point.

None of those businesses are still operating, strangely. For all the moaning some people like to do about the laziness of workers, there's nowhere near enough attention given to the rank incompetence of management.

"If you have time to lean, you've got time to clean", no, use that time to give colleagues quality training so that they have a better understanding of their current role & you can identify people who are close to, or ready to, step up. That way you can undertake Succesion Planning effectively rather than just make people do a pointless, mind numbing task.

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2 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

"If you have time to lean, you've got time to clean", no, use that time to give colleagues quality training so that they have a better understanding of their current role & you can identify people who are close to, or ready to, step up. That way you can undertake Succesion Planning effectively rather than just make people do a pointless, mind numbing task.

TBF, none of those jobs had any progression path, and I'm pretty sure the people in charge figured we were only in them because we were desperate, so they used us as disposable tools.

In one removals job, we were literally told that, if we fell down the stairs while carrying heavy items, we should prioritise the safety of the goods when we fell as we were replaceable, while damage to the goods would cost the business money. I don't know how someone can arrive at that mentality without thinking, "wow, I am a fucking psychopath".

This is more for something like the Work Colleagues thread, however. Back to ripping into those fat b*****ds!

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2 minutes ago, BFTD said:

TBF, none of those jobs had any progression path, and I'm pretty sure the people in charge figured we were only in them because we were desperate, so they used us as disposable tools.

In one removals job, we were literally told that, if we fell down the stairs while carrying heavy items, we should prioritise the safety of the goods when we fell as we were replaceable, while damage to the goods would cost the business money. I don't know how someone can arrive at that mentality without thinking, "wow, I am a fucking psychopath".

This is more for something like the Work Colleagues thread, however. Back to ripping into those fat b*****ds!

Here you, I'm a fat b*****d,, now I'm confused. Can I rip into them if they are fatter than me or can I only do it if I am a failed History Teacher?

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8 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Here you, I'm a fat b*****d,, now I'm confused. Can I rip into them if they are fatter than me or can I only do it if I am a failed History Teacher?

Better restrict yourself to the ones who smoke too, just to be safe. And/or buy ready-made sandwiches.

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1 minute ago, BFTD said:

Better restrict yourself to the ones who smoke too, just to be safe. And/or buy ready-made sandwiches.

What about nurses who eat Quality Street?

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2 hours ago, Moomintroll said:

"If you have time to lean, you've got time to clean", no, use that time to give colleagues quality training so that they have a better understanding of their current role & you can identify people who are close to, or ready to, step up. That way you can undertake Succesion Planning effectively rather than just make people do a pointless, mind numbing task.

It's not an either/or though. You're spot-on about the training, and it ties neatly in with Dave's point about useless management, but equally if people are at a loose end, then having a culture of good housekeeping is no bad thing. The company I work for is involved in manufacturing and repair of pumps, motors, etc. Although the workshops can look old-fashioned in some areas, they have to be kept as tidy as practicable. The stuff we work on ends up in nuclear power station, oil platforms, submarines, etc. There has to be a culture of quality first, and poor housekeeping and a lack of tidiness is always a red flag. You can almost guarantee that the same people that have a pile of mess in their workstation are also the ones who aren't paying as much attention to safety or quality. We train and train and train and try hard to ensure progression paths are there and achievable, and I'll still get dismayed by going into the workshop to find idiots standing around picking their arses.

With regards to this topic, and pretty much anything: The boring reality is that carrots, sticks, education, opportunity, and a litany of other often contradicting tactics will work for some and not for others. There's no point in saying "this doesn't work - we should do that". There's no catch-all. I would, however, prefer it if they didn't backtrack on plans to tax crap food. It's cynical as hell to pretend the decision was about helping the poor, as there are loads of ways to ringfence the money and help people.

 

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1 hour ago, Aufc said:

And what needs to be done is that we need to stop treating computational predictions as factual.

We learned this from bird flu, foot and mouth and covid the hard way and now it looks as though we're going to make the same mistake with obesity.

We don't need computer models. The problem is right in front of us and needs dealing with today.

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  • 2 months later...

Here is a series of articles I saw shared by some Twitter anon account that makes the case that obesity is nothing to do with diet and exercise but entirely related to environmental contamination.  It's a long series of articles, I am working my way through them.  Very interesting.

https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/

 

 

Edited by ICTChris
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2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Here is a series of articles I saw shared by some Twitter anon account that makes the case that obesity is nothing to do with diet and exercise but entirely related to environmental contamination.  It's a long series of articles, I am working my way through them.  Very interesting.

https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/

cbf7b15a399ce1e005f9ff44a5f0504b.gif.00ea8f4b5cfc369abdb5d01ce1b187ee.gif

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