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How Do We Solve a Problem Like Obesity?


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10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Anyone with an axe to grind against the poor.

Such as the Tory ministers who are in charge of benefits.

And the more than 10 million adults in the UK who routinely vote for them.

And Jack just clumsily handed them a weapon.

Some rhetorical questions DO require an answer. And that was one of them.

Sorry, I should have said “not wanted”, not “not required”

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15 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Thanks for this.

That's really helpful in understanding what is going on.

A few immediate thoughts.

On specific outgoings, I'm looking at my own budget to see what I would have to drop to come down to either of those two income figures. I have almost no outgoings at all so it's easy to compare.

They'd get a council tax rebate presumably so that wouldn't be an issue. The cars would definitely need to go. At that point, my outgoings would be under the  single mother's income but there's no room for emergency repairs or financial shocks. Not having a car would be a major problem if I ever wanted to get a job outside my local area. That would drastically reduce my options when it came to getting off benefits. There's also almost no money for doing any social things at all. In my situation, I have funds behind me to spend my way out of any trouble but the person you are talking about can't do that so there's a constant stress for them to deal with that I don't have. They also can't pay for school trips, presents, treats and other little things which make life worth living so their kid misses out.

In short, this person has enough to survive. Just. Then you add in all the caveats you mention like arrears and this person is not only fucked but is trapped indefinitely in poverty.

To get to the 20 year old's income, I literally have to remove everything except food and bills. I've estimated about £30 per week shopping and maybe £80 for gas/elec for a flat, leaving £60 which probably is going to be taken away for arrears payments. That is simply barbaric.

I seem to recall a Tory minister talking about how they thought an under 25 year old in this situation should still be living at home. That was the justification for lower minimum wage too. There really are no words to cover the sheer ignorance and stupidity of the person holding this view.

Anyway, those are my initial thoughts.

Fucking horrific TBH.

Thanks again for taking the time to post this.

There are other things I probably forgot to mention - re the Council Tax, both the above examples would get full Council Tax reduction but of course still have the water and sewerage charge. It's only around a £5 a week, but if you're on the bones of your arse already, that's barely affordable. The biggest concern of all is folk on pre-pay gas and electric meters. Those were already shite value but with the increases in prices they are going to be horrific. People are quite possibly going to freeze to death if we get a harsh winter because they literally can't afford to pay for gas/leccy, particularly where you have folk with mental health issues that just can't or won't engage with services.

To some folk that will sound like hyperbole, but it absolutely will happen imo. 

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1 hour ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

In home economics we had to make a sandwich, it took more than 1 lesson as we had to plan our sandwich and then make it the next week. 

In home economics I remember being taught to make garish Bermuda shirts, pizza and I blew up a kettle. Not my best subject.

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2 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

Single person 20 y/o with (eg) Epilepsy. Assessed as having Limited Capability for Work (excused from seeking work but no extra money. May be expected to take part in "work related activity", eg attend appointments with work coach, maybe do a computer course, CV writing etc etc) 

  • £265.31 per month Standard Allowance
  • £260.00 per month housing costs (based on a 1 bed flat in my local area which is pretty cheap)
  • £525.31 per month total UC payable / £265.31 if claimant opts to have housing costs paid direct to landlord. 

From the remaining £265.31 per month they may have the following deductions applied: 

  • UC advance (if they take the full amount available probably £35 p/m)
  • Any rent or council tax arrears are taken at off 20%/5% of the total Standard Allowance
  • Gas/Electricity suppliers can apply for 3rd party deductions whether claimant likes it or not if they can make a case that the claimant hasn't been paying the fuel bills

That's before you get to food, replacing clothing and travel

Single mum over 25, no health conditions, just had first child. 

  • £334.91 Standard Allowance
  • £244.58 Child element
  • £350.00 Housing costs
  • Total UC payable £579.49 (assuming HC paid to landlord direct)
  • Plus Child Benefit at £21.80 per week (not part of UC)

Above percentages for deductions etc still apply. Also worth noting that claimants are effectively forced to take advances on the UC as any legacy benefits, ie JSA, Tax Credits, stop as soon as you claim UC. You then have a minimum 5 week waiting period for first UC payment so folk will need to take an advance in most cases to bridge the gap, or they'll instantly be behind on rent, and monumentally skint. 

Both scenarios are pretty grim, but pretty commonplace. The single mum is slightly better off up here as she would also get the Scottish Child Payment at £20 per week, plus baby box and some other SG-specific assistance. 

Very interesting indeed.

When you cut out the abuse you obviously can be quite informative.

Stick with it. It’s a much better way.

Would the single mother be encouraged to get into employment with the state helping with childcare if there were no family to assist? Work is obviously the best solution both mentally and economically I would have thought.

Anyway, thanks for the facts.
 

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+1 for the predictable 'jobs are the best way out of poverty'. It's demonstrably not the case now, is it. It's the best way to line rich 'wealth creators' and shareholders pockets while grinding on an insecure minimum wage job which buys you absolutely f**k all thanks to yet another financial crisis.
Still though, cheap pasta and chicken.




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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Universally free childcare would be one way to help single parents (usually mothers) get back into work.

Allowing working from home and more part-time work certainly helps as well.

A big problem is that these benefits are clearly designed to be punitive. Help is what is required, not a kicking. It's the same with disabled people who want to and are capable of work. The Tories are so busy obsessing over the relatively small number of piss-takers that they are punishing swathes of people who they SHOULD be helping to get at them.

 

The massive problem here is that the move to UC has made part time work for say, single parents almost completely pointless. In the old days a parent with a young kid could have worked 15 hours a week, and not had their benefits hammered. UC have made this system much more complex than it needs to be with a 55% taper, and caveats with work allowances. Worse still, UC have totally discouraged the self-employed with the overly harsh minimum income floor. It's a dreadful, inefficient system which has, is and will continue to cost the government far more than it intended to save.

The same goes for legacy benefits like PIP and ESA which fell under welfare reform. The massively flawed assessment processes for both have cost the government way more in defending (and mostly losing) appeals than they ever would have by not allowing absolute chancers to take over disability and health assessments. 

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5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

@Day of the Lords you don't need to qualify for UC to get PIP payments though do you?

No, they are entirely different benefits. PIP is a non-means-tested disability benefit. 

UC is a qualifier for things like free school meals, school uniform grants etc - basically in the same way tax credits, ESA, JSA used to be. 

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Fucking hell. What happened to Oaksoft, the Iain Duncan Smith-lionising Hammer of the Poor?

I guess it was all trolling after all.

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57 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

The massive problem here is that the move to UC has made part time work for say, single parents almost completely pointless. In the old days a parent with a young kid could have worked 15 hours a week, and not had their benefits hammered. UC have made this system much more complex than it needs to be with a 55% taper, and caveats with work allowances. Worse still, UC have totally discouraged the self-employed with the overly harsh minimum income floor. It's a dreadful, inefficient system which has, is and will continue to cost the government far more than it intended to save.

The same goes for legacy benefits like PIP and ESA which fell under welfare reform. The massively flawed assessment processes for both have cost the government way more in defending (and mostly losing) appeals than they ever would have by not allowing absolute chancers to take over disability and health assessments. 

I've breached ESA earnings by about £200 because we had no staff due to COVID for last couple weeks financial year. They want my payslips.

I've started full time work, I notified council and DwP in advance. DWP wait  on hold was over 1hr 20min. Council are working on change circumstances forms from end March. They've suspended my housing benefit claim so I don't end up with an overpayment.

Chased ESA yesterday, only the 40min wait, they've seen the overpayment but hadn't suspended the claim due to breach not me calling them two weeks in advance of change.

Systems a mess.

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A minimum wage job will pay that 20 year old [mention=15829]Day of the Lords[/mention] was talking about, £256 for a 37.5 hour working week. That 's just over £1100 per month (4.33 weeks per month) - most of which will be tax free.
Even allowing for council tax, rent and national insurance and the scandalous £6.83 hourly wage, it's hard to conclude that having that minimum wage job is no better than being out of work. "Buys you absolutely f**k all" is the phrase you used.
Short of winning the lottery or inheriting or crime, the only possible way out of poverty would be to use that minimum wage job and try and find a way of getting up the wages ladder by re-training, re-skilling or whatever. If you have any other suggestions, I'm all ears.
I meant on benefits rather than completely out of work.
As per the gov website and those min wage job numbers, you can make up the same amount on benefits as a single adult as you can in a min wage job. That's before add ons when being a single parent etc.
Neither of these incomes are going very far just now. Exorbitant rents, can't get near buying a house, energy costs, food costs, transport costs etc. Why does the 'party of low tax' consistently have the highest VAT rate when they're in government? They've had years to reduce VAT, which was apparently going to be another Brexit win where they could set VAT rates with no interference.

I don't know what the answer is either, perhaps more workplaces becoming a co-op where employees receive equity in the business. What the answer isn't is patronising and punching down on those with little to rub together and telling them it's all their own fault.
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The tory worstcunt government claiming to want to restrict the activities of private companies in order to protect the massively strained public NHS, but then doing f**k all, sort of seems like the pre amble to something else.....

Can anyone speculate as to what... I wonder

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6 hours ago, coprolite said:

She's not trying to do an analysis of why she's struggling though. She's making the narrow point that when people quote ridiculous prices for a meal, that's not the full story. 

She really accomplished that point, by quoting a different set of ridiculous prices. 

Factoring the differing energy costs of cooking recipes (oven v microwave) is absolutely a valid point to raise; her superfluous, £40 blender and the monthly rent really are not.

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24 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

I meant on benefits rather than completely out of work.
As per the gov website and those min wage job numbers, you can make up the same amount on benefits as a single adult as you can in a min wage job. That's before add ons when being a single parent etc.

You really can't, unless your benefits are unusually firewalled from the wrath of the government's spiteful and incompetent policies. A full-time minimum wage job is absolutely preferable to benefits in terms of standard of living.

The key point is actually 'full time' here. Part-time and zero hours contracts are what really f**k over many in the most insecure and poorest paid jobs, not least when their employer implicitly expects (or demands) full flexibility to meet their needs. 

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25 minutes ago, virginton said:

You really can't, unless your benefits are unusually firewalled from the wrath of the government's spiteful and incompetent policies. A full-time minimum wage job is absolutely preferable to benefits in terms of standard of living.

The key point is actually 'full time' here. Part-time and zero hours contracts are what really f**k over many in the most insecure and poorest paid jobs, not least when their employer implicitly expects (or demands) full flexibility to meet their needs. 

The minimum wage for 23 + has just gone up to £9.50which was a big increase for employers to deal with.

Couple that with extra NI and more to auto enrolment pensions its a lot extra to bear.

Dont quite understand the big difference between 20 year olds and the above?

Maybe that should be looked at.

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On 04/03/2021 at 12:00, G51 said:

It's not hard to see why people who are completely demoralised after spending 8 hours at a meaningless job stretching out a 2 hour task would rather spend the free time they have doing enjoyable things instead of things they are too tired for and can't be fucked doing.

If someone has just stretched a 2-hour task out to an 8-hour shift they shouldn't be very tired tbh. I think if I was their boss I'd be a bit pissed off.

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1 hour ago, milton75 said:

If someone has just stretched a 2-hour task out to an 8-hour shift they shouldn't be very tired tbh. I think if I was their boss I'd be a bit pissed off.

It's what ministers and Whitehall mandarins fail to anticipate every time. No matter how much they cut the real value of salaries, I can always find ways of doing less.

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