How Do We Solve a Problem Like Obesity?

[ICTChris]

After he beat Mike Tyson in arguably the biggest boxing upset of all time, Buster Douglas piled on the weight and neglected his training.  IN order to slim down for his first defence, against Evander Holyfield, he allegedly only ate pizza when he was in a sauna.  He lost.

[TheScarf]

Just ordered a large pizza from Domino's, lads.  #athlete #swole #natty

[GiGi]

12 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Just ordered a large pizza from Domino's, lads.  #athlete #swole #natty

If you switch to a medium you'll have fantastic abs by the end of the day.

[Steve_Wilkos]

34 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Just ordered a large pizza from Domino's, lads.  #athlete #swole #natty

What toppings?

[TheScarf]

3 minutes ago, Steve_Wilkos said:

What toppings?

Kept it simple, Steveo. Just pepperoni and beef.

[dorlomin]

On 10/04/2021 at 19:44, ICTChris said:

hat it does show is that messages about 'burning off' things you eat can be harmful to vulnerable people.  You aren't supposed to exercise away the calories of your meals.  I wonder how much affect the rhetoric around food with regards to obesity has on people who have eating disorders like anorexia and bulemia?

 

First increasing exercise is a scientifically accepted part of weight management. Its also important for other "biomarkers", that is to say exercise can help with many other health problems. 

Quote

 

Health benefits
Given the overwhelming evidence, it seems obvious that we should all be physically active. It's essential if you want to live a healthy and fulfilling life into old age.

It's medically proven that people who do regular physical activity have:

up to a 35% lower risk of coronary heart disease and stroke
up to a 50% lower risk of type 2 diabetes
up to a 50% lower risk of colon cancer
up to a 20% lower risk of breast cancer
a 30% lower risk of early death
up to an 83% lower risk of osteoarthritis
up to a 68% lower risk of hip fracture
a 30% lower risk of falls (among older adults)
up to a 30% lower risk of depression
up to a 30% lower risk of dementia

 

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/exercise-health-benefits/

 

Secondly having a high body fat percentage is a major cause of ill health and premature death. 

Quote

Compared with individuals of healthy weight (BMI 18·5–24·9 kg/m2), life expectancy from age 40 years was 4·2 years shorter in obese (BMI ≥30·0 kg/m2) men and 3·5 years shorter in obese women, and 4·3 years shorter in underweight (BMI <18·5 kg/m2) men and 4·5 years shorter in underweight women.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(18)30288-2/fulltext

In terms of anorexia, it is still not a well understood problem but it is often theorised it is either unreasonable beauty standards like size 0 models, photoshopped instagram as the kinds  social pressures that are identified. (though the disease has been around long before these)

Quote

 

you or a member of your family has a history of eating disorders, depression, or alcohol or drug addiction

you have been criticised for your eating habits, body shape or weight

you're overly concerned with being slim, particularly if you also feel pressure from society or your job – for example, ballet dancers, jockeys, models or athletes

you have anxiety, low self-esteem, an obsessive personality or are a perfectionist

you have been sexually abused

 

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/anorexia/overview/

You are exploiting this persons death with an invented psychological analysis of her. There are industries that exploit peoples insecurities. But the idea that a necessary (and it is necessary no matter how bad it makes some people on this thread feel) public health message that being seriously over weight is one of the major causes of preventable illness in the UK, is unlikely to be one of them. Vague kvetching about "messaging" or something seems to be more to do with individuals here feeling personal discomfort at these messages than the slightest f**k about people with eating disorders. 

If people want to highlight exploitative advertising etc then do so. By and large the health message from the health authorities seems fine by me. 

And you say that " I wonder how much affect the rhetoric around food with regards to obesity ", after you state her problem was she could not exercise.

I have no interest in getting further into this. There is a public duty by the medical community and the NHS to inform people they need to exercise more and take more care with their diet. Same as they have a public duty to state the damages from tobacco and alcohol. Youd be far better looking at the fashion industry and celebrity culture than worrying about people being told to cut back on the kebab and chips. 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by dorlomin

[Detournement]

You've obviously not understood what ICTChris is saying. Obviously healthy diet and exercise are important no one would suggest otherwise are important but linking the two as transactional can create negative behaviours and compulsions. 

We're not machines and focusing on numbers isn't a long term solution. Eat healthy, exercise regularly. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Detournement

[ICTChris]

When I said the rhetoric or messages about food I didn’t mean public health campaigns about healthy eating or the dangers of obesity. I meant the way people talk about burning off their meals, something that people were doing on this thread a page or so ago. I’ve never seen any public health campaign say that.

 

[The Moonster]

Maybe if more people had bullied her about her anorexia she would've eaten a bit more. 

[Aufc]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57144922

 

Bump. Doesnt make for good reading

[ICTChris]

I thought it was odd that the numbers were so skewed towards women being admitted but having looked up the details on NHS digital the leading cause was for maternal care, so pregnant women with gestational diabetes or conditions like that.

It seems like a bit jump given the rates of obesity are fairly steady but it could be due to people who are obese when they are younger ageing. I don’t really know, worrying to see anyway.

[dorlomin]

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I thought it was odd that the numbers were so skewed towards women

 

 

 

https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2021/03/04/patterns-and-trends-in-excess-weight-among-adults-in-england/

Women are twice as likely to be severely obese as men in the UK. I do not know if that is an artefact of the the statistics, due to physiological factors or sociological. 

I will say this to every person reading this. The next ten years of your life are going to come at you a damn sight faster than you will believe. Every few years it will get harder to gain muscle, stamina and the habits to maintain yourself at a reasonable body mass composition. Its not me thats going to suffer if you dont. Its not like you are getting one over on the government or something. Its just you and those who love and care for you. And the ten years after that will come even faster again. 

The difference between someone in their 50s/60s who has looked after themselves and the lifestyle they can enjoy vs someone who just leant into their comfort zone at every opportunity is night and day. 

[ICTChris]

I’ve found the solution 

https://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eating-only-mcdonalds-six-months-2d79329158

[Miguel Sanchez]

13 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I’ve found the solution 

https://www.today.com/health/man-loses-56-pounds-after-eating-only-mcdonalds-six-months-2d79329158

I'm surprised you haven't posted this today Dr Chris Tulleken: 'I ate only ultra-processed food for a month and felt like I aged 10 years' (inews.co.uk)

Quote

 

Globally, childhood obesity rates have expanded tenfold in just 50 years. In the UK, 21 per cent of children leaving primary school are now categorised as obese – the highest level we have ever seen.

To test his theory, the 42-year-old medic did what all self-respecting scientists from Dr Jekyll onwards have done, and experimented on himself.

For four weeks, he follows a diet that is 80 per cent UPF. At the end of the experiment, he is battered, bruised, 6.5kg heavier – and deeply alarmed. “I’ve aged 10 years in four weeks,” he groans. Super Size Me, eat your heart out.

 

 

[vikingTON]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

More utter nonsense from the increasingly shrill and uppity public health lobby.

My personal highlight being a truly laughable price: calorie comparison chart showing that - shock! - fresh fruit and vegetables are more expensive per calorie than processed food and cakes. The comparison table omits however the starchy carbohydrates that, in the real world, are combined with vegetables to produce healthy and calorie-rich meals at a fraction of the cost of meat or ready meal alternatives. The only carbohydrate listed in its table (in the above article; fully annotated in the report) are, erm, baked potatoes. Pasta, rice, or bog-standard potatoes that you can get 2kg for under £1? Conveniently not calculated for reasons. 

The taxation of sugary/fatty products idea has things completely the wrong way round. The best way to deal with obesity is to tax the outcome rather than products that themselves do not make anyone obese.

There should be a surtax slapped on the total income of fatties for every point they are above their recommended BMI score after GP consultation. Or alternatively, a 'health dividend' can be awarded from a higher basic rate for those who can get past the biscuit aisle without abandoning all self-control. That extra income can be spent on the education and anti-poverty measures that the report also suggests = problem solved with personal responsibility rather than collective punishment. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by vikingTON

[steve55]

I would have a massive tax on Sweets.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Not read the whole thread probably been mentioned already but banning apps like Just Eat and Uber Eats can only help.

Way too convenient getting unhealthy food delivered to your front door at the push of a button.

[eez-eh]

13 hours ago, virginton said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57838103

More utter nonsense from the increasingly shrill and uppity public health lobby.

My personal highlight being a truly laughable price: calorie comparison chart showing that - shock! - fresh fruit and vegetables are more expensive per calorie than processed food and cakes. The comparison table omits however the starchy carbohydrates that, in the real world, are combined with vegetables to produce healthy and calorie-rich meals at a fraction of the cost of meat or ready meal alternatives. The only carbohydrate listed in its table (in the above article; fully annotated in the report) are, erm, baked potatoes. Pasta, rice, or bog-standard potatoes that you can get 2kg for under £1? Conveniently not calculated for reasons. 

The taxation of sugary/fatty products idea has things completely the wrong way round. The best way to deal with obesity is to tax the outcome rather than products that themselves do not make anyone obese.

There should be a surtax slapped on the total income of fatties for every point they are above their recommended BMI score after GP consultation. Or alternatively, a 'health dividend' can be awarded from a higher basic rate for those who can get past the biscuit aisle without abandoning all self-control. That extra income can be spent on the education and anti-poverty measures that the report also suggests = problem solved with personal responsibility rather than collective punishment. 

That was my favourite bit too. Laughably bad reporting but it’s probably just reflective of the lack of understanding the average person has about nutrition and how calories work.

[The Moonster]

3 hours ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Not read the whole thread probably been mentioned already but banning apps like Just Eat and Uber Eats can only help.

Way too convenient getting unhealthy food delivered to your front door at the push of a button.

If those apps disappeared restaurants would just open their own website and start taking orders, people like paying online in advance for these things and a lot of weirdos have problems ordering via a phone because speaking to people is apparently something we find difficult now. 

[the jambo-rocker]

Tax on salt lol.