G51 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Ric said: It's not the same club though, that's the difference. Did Dundee or Motherwell suddenly become Dundee Incorporated or The Motherwell Trading Company? You know this, and are perhaps playing semantics. I don't really have a dog in this fight, it's irrelevant to me the histories of either side of the OF. 9 minutes ago, Ric said: For me it's just simple, either you take the debt and titles or you take neither. i guess it's not that simple 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 It really is, the fact that OF fans (and some diddy provincial clubs fans too) can't see that is because they are too close to what is clearly an emotive subject for them.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Ric said: It really is, the fact that OF fans (and some diddy provincial clubs fans too) can't see that is because they are too close to what is clearly an emotive subject for them.. Did one Rangers entity buy the titles from another Rangers entity? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Just now, ropy said: Did one Rangers entity buy the titles from another Rangers entity? I bought them for a pound. My cat is the current holder of 44 Scottish league titles. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ropy said: Did one Rangers entity buy the titles from another Rangers entity? You can't buy titles though, I mean in the metaphorical sense you can as one of the OF "buy a title" every year, but a title isn't a commodity you can trade. If so I'm off to hunt down who owns Third Lanark's title from the turn of the century and see how much they want for it. Edited March 2, 2021 by Ric 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, Ric said: It really is, the fact that OF fans (and some diddy provincial clubs fans too) can't see that is because they are too close to what is clearly an emotive subject for them.. @ me next time, bitch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, G51 said: @ me next time, bitch 10 La Rue street, be there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ric said: You can't buy titles though, I mean in the metaphorical sense you can as on of the OF "buy a title" every year, but a title isn't a commodity you can trade. If so I'm off to hunt down who owns Third Lanark's title from the turn of the century and see how much they want for it. I wonder if Dumbarton would give us a price for their half win, money going to their youth academy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ric said: You can't buy titles though, I mean in the metaphorical sense you can as on of the OF "buy a title" every year, but a title isn't a commodity you can trade. If so I'm off to hunt down who owns Third Lanark's title from the turn of the century and see how much they want for it. Sorry, the other cat's got them. I'm open to challengers, except for Smudger, as he'd batter f**k out of them he's disqualified for bad sportsmanship. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 49 minutes ago, bluearmyfaction said: What would have happened if the revived Rangers had not been admitted to the League and that place had gone to (say) Spartans? Surely the new people behind them would have done an Airdrie and bought someone else out of the competition entirely? I think the rules were changed after that to make it more difficult or rule it out completely. But I don't doubt they'd have tried and they might have found a willing partner. ie. Buy a club, take their league place and make a donation to allow a new club to enter at the bottom of the pyramid. If the pyramid hadn't been implemented bide their time until it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I think the rules were changed after that to make it more difficult or rule it out completely. But I don't doubt they'd have tried and they might have found a willing partner. ie. Buy a club, take their league place and make a donation to allow a new club to enter at the bottom of the pyramid. If the pyramid hadn't been implemented bide their time until it is. The rules were changed afterwards, yes. The notion of a club is now much more nebulously defined as "something that can be owned and operated". That's what allowed Airdrie United to be rebranded as Airdrieonians despite having zero connection with John Martin's old side. They were sold/awarded (I can't remember now which) the rights to the image, badge and history of the defunct Broomfieldians. Sevco 5088 would definitely have tried to buy someone else, so I actually think that them coming in as #team42 was probably the best of the options as it meant another team was spared oblivion. Regarding the other point about "stripping titles" if you go into administration? Well, no, not necessarily. But if you are liquidated, then yes. Grow up and accept it. Or do what the Bairns did (see what I did there?) and pay back 100%, that's ONE HUNDRED F**KING PERCENT of your debt and carry on. Edited March 2, 2021 by Ranaldo Bairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: The rules were changed afterwards, yes. The notion of a club is now much more nebulously defined as "something that can be owned and operated". That's what allowed Airdrie United to be rebranded as Airdrieonians despite having zero connection with John Martin's old side. They were sold/awarded (I can't remember now which) the rights to the image, badge and history of the defunct Broomfieldians. Sevco 5088 would definitely have tried to buy someone else, so I actually think that them coming in as #team42 was probably the best of the options as it meant another team was spared oblivion. Regarding the other point about "stripping titles" if you go into administration? Well, no, not necessarily. But if you are liquidated, then yes. Or grow up, do what the Bairns did (see what I did there?) and pay back 100%, that's ONE HUNDRED F**KING PERCENT of your debt and carry on. Rangers couldn't pay their debts which is why they were liquidated and died. Unsure what 'growing up' has to do with that. A bizarre contribution. Clubs who enter administration do so because they can't afford to pay 100% of their debts. Again, unsure what 'growing up' has to do with this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: Regarding the other point about "stripping titles" if you go into administration? Well, no, not necessarily. But if you are liquidated, then yes. Or grow up, do what the Bairns did (see what I did there?) and pay back 100%, that's ONE HUNDRED F**KING PERCENT of your debt and carry on. mugs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Dissertation season is bad enough. Dissertation season and a discussion about Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco rolled into one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, DA Baracus said: Rangers couldn't pay their debts which is why they were liquidated and died. Unsure what 'growing up' has to do with that. A bizarre contribution. Clubs who enter administration do so because they can't afford to pay 100% of their debts. Again, unsure what 'growing up' has to do with this. In that case they 'grow up' and accept their club and its successes, are gone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: In that case they 'grow up' and accept their club and its successes, are gone. Ok, I get you now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, G51 said: mugs A fair bit of truth in that actually, when you see how certain other clubs have shed debt (repeatedly) on occasion. But I'm pretty sure the rules for CVA were not in place in 1998 so we simply had to pay back the lot. Our 'administration' was actually called 'provisional liquidation', i.e. a precursor to properly bust. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Ok, I get you now. Edited to improve my phrasing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 hours ago, G51 said: "all clubs who enter administration should forfeit their titles" is a hell of an argument It would be if anyone was actually saying that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: A fair bit of truth in that actually, when you see how certain other clubs have shed debt (repeatedly) on occasion. But I'm pretty sure the rules for CVA were not in place in 1998 so we simply had to pay back the lot. Our 'administration' was actually called 'provisional liquidation', i.e. a precursor to properly bust. the principle of "you either pay 100% of your debt or you forfeit titles" is stupid and there's no rule to this effect in any credible sports league in the world, for very obvious reasons when you stop and think about it for longer than ten seconds. ultimately, debt is the same as money - it is nothing more than a promise. when push comes to shove, we keep that promise to people we value, and we break that promise to people we don't. the football industry values debt to other football clubs - hence why all clubs in insolvency had to pay money owed for transfer fees etc - and doesn't value debt owed to anyone else. this principle is true of every person, company and nation the world over. if the punishment for failure to repay debt is being sent to the seaside leagues, falkirk may as well have racked up billions of pounds of it. Edited March 2, 2021 by G51 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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