The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion

[Leith Green]

22 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

Hibs remaining pre split fixture is the derby, for which they’ve presumably sold the bulk of the tickets they were going to already. There won’t be “walk ups” in the strict sense of the term.

However with Derby tickets now useless the real victim is me! I’ve now got to find a new Xmas present for my mum.

 

Thats probably right, although the new year derby will also have considerable (and profitable) hospitality sales as well.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Thats probably right, although the new year derby will also have considerable (and profitable) hospitality sales as well.

That doesn’t help my Christmas shopping though

[Leith Green]

8 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

That doesn’t help my Christmas shopping though

Something to toast santa with?

[The Master]

11 hours ago, lubo_blaha said:

Aberdeen are losing half a million from the Dundee and Rangers home games apparently.

Given our recent run of form I think our contribution to that is similar to me saying that Messi and I have 7 Ballons d’Or between us.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Given our recent run of form I think our contribution to that is similar to me saying that Messi and I have 7 Ballons d’Or between us.

Congratulations to both you and Lionel

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Something to toast santa with?

I thought flutes were more of a Rangers thing

[PauloPerth]

It doesn't just coincide with the winter break, it also coincides with two of the best attended games of the season where clubs make massive amounts of income.

Agree, I've always loved the buzz around Boxing Day and 2nd January games.

Not really relevant to the covid situation, but let's be honest, those running our game have fucked that themselves for a good few years. The games in mid December upto Xmas were traditionally lower crowds, with the two fixtures on the public holidays massively up on averages.

So for the majority of the last 5-6 years in the Premiership we've had loads of fixtures crammed into December upto Xmas, then fixtures on the Saturday between Xmas and new year, and binned the ny fixture card altogether.

The people running our game don't even understand the business they're in.

[accies1874]

Having gone straight from regular crowds to virtually "closed doors" for 3-weeks minimum... would they really restore anything like regular crowds, anything like as rapidly?

I didn't even think about that. No away fans at some stadiums for quite a while then.

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 hours ago, Leith Green said:

Something to toast santa with?

Ah, finest Rutherglen crystal.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Hearts come out in favour of bringing the winter break forward

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-update-1-2-3-4-5?fbclid=IwAR0s-O-zNJp2-lF5Jdv8NvpYuVLo-w2qHaUShyvA4TTzsuIvVujRv_1rBlg

As do our neighbours

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/article/club-statement-latest-covid-update

I assume there will be statements from other clubs either already or soon

[Leith Green]

Just now, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Hearts come out in favour of bringing the winter break forward

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-update-1-2-3-4-5?fbclid=IwAR0s-O-zNJp2-lF5Jdv8NvpYuVLo-w2qHaUShyvA4TTzsuIvVujRv_1rBlg

I assume there will be statements from other clubs either already or soon

Celtic, Hibs, St Mirren did so yesterday

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Celtic, Hibs, St Mirren did so yesterday

[Leith Green]

9 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Nope !!

[HibeeJibee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59760055

So they're playing the Boxing Day games; delaying the Wed 29th games to midweek the winter break was supposed to end; plus delaying New Year games to the only free Wednesday left (Feb 2nd).

EDIT: From perspective of supposed pressure on public transport/emergency services/etc. that of course means OF derby, Edinburgh derby and Dundee derby on weeknights.

It also means clubs are effectively getting slightly longer break than before... instead of lasting 3 weeks (Sun 2nd to Sat 22nd) it now lasts 3.5 weeks (Sun 26th to Tue 18th).


EDIT AGAIN: also means that if Celtic or Rangers were to reach Scottish Cup QFs and go 2 rounds in European knockouts they don't have a single free date before split.

Edited December 22, 2021 by HibeeJibee

[HibeeJibee]

So it now seems not only was 500 picked for no evidential reason; and no data paper on outdoor events issued; plus % of capacity unconsidered; but whole intervention is really about social PR "messaging":

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/john-swinney-gives-clarity-only-25770284

John Swinney has revealed the reason why crowds at football games across Scotland will be curbed to just 500 for three weeks from Boxing Day. The Scottish Government faces questions on why all football clubs must restrict themselves to 500 supporters regardless of their size. Supporters and clubs have argued that more people should be allowed into larger stadiums, such as Celtic Park, Ibrox, Pittodrie, Easter Road and Tynecastle, as there is more space to socially distance compared to some of the grounds in the lower leagues.

The Deputy First Minister and Covid Recovery Minister said the reason for restriction was to send a "very clear signal" and to give "clarity"
...

John Mason, SNP MSP for Shettleston, asked Swinney at the Covid-19 Recovery Committee: "Why this exact number of 500, why is it not varied between different sizes of stadia?" Swinney replied: "I think the key point here is that we've got to take decisions based on making sure such judgments are effective. "For example we have a multiple range of options about outside venues, let's for example, take the model Mr Mason has put to me of a variation reflecting stadium size and stadium facility.

"I think we lose clarity of messaging, which is a blunt one. "I make no apology for being so blunt, we need to quite simply reduce the degree to which people are interacting. "A total of 500 as a maximum for outdoor events gives a very clear signal to people in the country that we have to reduce that interaction.

"So for example a crowd of 500 at a Rangers game compared to a crowd of 50,000 which would normally be of that order makes a very, very clear significant point that we have to reduce dramatically the level of social interaction. "There's a simple clarity that is necessary

[topcat(The most tip top)]

So it now seems not only was 500 picked for no evidential reason; and no data paper on outdoor events issued; plus % of capacity unconsidered; but whole intervention is really about social PR "messaging":

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/john-swinney-gives-clarity-only-25770284

John Swinney has revealed the reason why crowds at football games across Scotland will be curbed to just 500 for three weeks from Boxing Day. The Scottish Government faces questions on why all football clubs must restrict themselves to 500 supporters regardless of their size. Supporters and clubs have argued that more people should be allowed into larger stadiums, such as Celtic Park, Ibrox, Pittodrie, Easter Road and Tynecastle, as there is more space to socially distance compared to some of the grounds in the lower leagues.
The Deputy First Minister and Covid Recovery Minister said the reason for restriction was to send a "very clear signal" and to give "clarity"
...
John Mason, SNP MSP for Shettleston, asked Swinney at the Covid-19 Recovery Committee: "Why this exact number of 500, why is it not varied between different sizes of stadia?" Swinney replied: "I think the key point here is that we've got to take decisions based on making sure such judgments are effective. "For example we have a multiple range of options about outside venues, let's for example, take the model Mr Mason has put to me of a variation reflecting stadium size and stadium facility.
"I think we lose clarity of messaging, which is a blunt one. "I make no apology for being so blunt, we need to quite simply reduce the degree to which people are interacting. "A total of 500 as a maximum for outdoor events gives a very clear signal to people in the country that we have to reduce that interaction.
"So for example a crowd of 500 at a Rangers game compared to a crowd of 50,000 which would normally be of that order makes a very, very clear significant point that we have to reduce dramatically the level of social interaction. "There's a simple clarity that is necessary

If time is of the essence then a good plan now is better than a great plan next week

[54_and_counting]

22 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59760055

So they're playing the Boxing Day games; delaying the Wed 29th games to midweek the winter break was supposed to end; plus delaying New Year games to the only free Wednesday left (Feb 2nd).

EDIT: From perspective of supposed pressure on public transport/emergency services/etc. that of course means OF derby, Edinburgh derby and Dundee derby on weeknights.

It also means clubs are effectively getting slightly longer break than before... instead of lasting 3 weeks (Sun 2nd to Sat 22nd) it now lasts 3.5 weeks (Sun 26th to Tue 18th).


EDIT AGAIN: also means that if Celtic or Rangers were to reach Scottish Cup QFs and go 2 rounds in European knockouts they don't have a single free date before split.

You think its possible they chose midweek dates instead of trying to coerce the scottish cup dates to midweek cause they know they'll be little or no fans allowed still, and that the police etc would agree to them

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

You think its possible they chose midweek dates instead of trying to coerce the scottish cup dates to midweek cause they know they'll be little or no fans allowed still, and that the police etc would agree to them

We just don't know

[craigkillie]

You think its possible they chose midweek dates instead of trying to coerce the scottish cup dates to midweek cause they know they'll be little or no fans allowed still, and that the police etc would agree to them

Just as I said earlier in the thread, the Premiership is the only league delaying, and I don't see why lower league clubs would want to move Scottish Cup games to midweek.

[HibeeJibee]

Logistically difficult anyway - got 4 televised Scottish Cup ties with different broadcasters (BBC + PremierSport). In any case: all they could have done was dump R4 onto Feb 2nd and R5 is Feb 12th.

EDIT: Plus cynically - if you doubt regular crowds will be back immediately, it would actually suit to let Scottish Cup R4 take a 'hit' on Jan 22nd and hope an easing may arrive by Feb 2nd.

Edited December 23, 2021 by HibeeJibee