The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion

[johnnydun]

8 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

Yeah, they probably should. Which is why on public transport there is still restrictions and face masks still advised. 

You are very 'Am alright Jack'.

[Theyellowbox]

20 minutes ago, AJF said:

You think unvaccinated people should be banned from using public transport? What next? Banks, supermarkets, public footpaths?

No, what I'm saying there is restrictions and guidance/rules in public transport which increases the safety. 

[Theyellowbox]

18 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

 

How is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do a good thing? It's down to choice, if you disagree with their choice or not is your opinion, but you can't force it. 

And this is why this Passport scheme has been brought in, not for any other reason.

You ever wear a seat belt in a car? I don't like paying tax, but I have to. You think the scheme is brought in just to force choices on folk and for no other reason? Really?

[johnnydun]

15 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

You ever wear a seat belt in a car? I don't like paying tax, but I have to. You think the scheme is brought in just to force choices on folk and for no other reason? Really?

Are you really comparing this to wearing a seat belt?

[Loonytoons]

The point about public transport is moot because there is no restriction on who can use public transport regardless of your vaccination status so the proportion of unvaccinated people using public transport will be the exact same regardless of whether they are travelling to the football or travelling to the shops.

Just thousands more using them on matchday which is why it isn't a moot point. If non vaccinated aren't allowed to the game they wont be on the public transport.

[Loonytoons]

You ever wear a seat belt in a car? I don't like paying tax, but I have to. You think the scheme is brought in just to force choices on folk and for no other reason? Really?

Mainly that, yes. That and to be seen to be doing something.

[Granny Danger]

40 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

 

How is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do a good thing? It's down to choice, if you disagree with their choice or not is your opinion, but you can't force it. 

And this is why this Passport scheme has been brought in, not for any other reason.

I don’t get this argument.  If those who choose not to get vaccinated we’re doing something that only affected themselves I would be totally OK with that choice, but that’s not how Covid works.

 

[vikingTON]

4 minutes ago, Loonytoons said:

 

 

 

Just thousands more using them on matchday which is why it isn't a moot point. If non vaccinated aren't allowed to the game they wont be on the public transport.

Or they'll use public transport to do something else with their Saturday instead. 

[Loonytoons]

Or they'll use public transport to do something else with their Saturday instead. 

To go to a football stadium?

[vikingTON]

Just now, Loonytoons said:

To go to a football stadium?

No, they'll probably go to a pub where the chances of transmission are far, far higher than at a football stadium. 

So no extra safety for public transport and no extra safety for society either. 

[Loonytoons]

No, they'll probably go to a pub where the chances of transmission are far, far higher than at a football stadium. 
So no extra safety for public transport and no extra safety for society either. 

All to the same pub on the same public transport in their thousands? Really deliberately missing the point VT.

[vikingTON]

Just now, Loonytoons said:

All to the same pub on the same public transport in their thousands? Really deliberately missing the point VT.

No, your point is simply ridiculous. If unvaccinated people have the temerity to do something in their spare time on a Saturday, they'll continue to do it. Rather than going to a stadium where there is zero evidence of mass transmission though, they'll go to indoor spaces where the risk is demonstrably greater. The idea that this is balanced out by them not using public transport - completely unsubstantiated btw - is also nonsense.

When you're working this hard to rummage around for knock-on, indirect safety benefits of a policy, it is clearly not worth the time or hassle to implement. 

[johnnydun]

13 minutes ago, Loonytoons said:

All to the same pub on the same public transport in their thousands? Really deliberately missing the point VT.

That's like saying all the fans will use the same turnstile in 1 stand to access the whole ground.

[AJF]

21 minutes ago, Loonytoons said:

 

 

 

Just thousands more using them on matchday which is why it isn't a moot point. If non vaccinated aren't allowed to the game they wont be on the public transport.

 

 

I believe it is a moot point. As an example, even if we take a generous estimate of 10% of Ibrox's capacity being unvaccinated, that is 5,000 people.

Given the large fanbase we have, what do you think the chances are of many of them using the same forms of public transport are going to be?

They will be coming from all over Glasgow and further afield. I'd suggest it is extremely unlikely that many of them at all will share the same form of public transport to the extent that it increases the chances of virus transmission. Some will walk, some will drive, some will take the bus, some will take the train, some will take the subway.

It's hardly going to be a mass congregation of 5,000 unvaccinated people on the same form of public transport. I also think you are being disingenuous if you believe all of them will just stay at home on match days rather than find something else to fill their time.

[lubo_blaha]

It may have been mentioned earlier but surely the spot-check idea is utterly pointless. Say 1 in 10 people are being checked, what’s stopping someone who isn’t vaccinated from coming back 5 minutes later with a 90% chance of not getting checked?

[Theyellowbox]

2 minutes ago, AJF said:

I believe it is a moot point. As an example, even if we take a generous estimate of 10% of Ibrox's capacity being unvaccinated, that is 5,000 people.

Given the large fanbase we have, what do you think the chances are of many of them using the same forms of public transport are going to be?

They will be coming from all over Glasgow and further afield. I'd suggest it is extremely unlikely that many of them at all will share the same form of public transport to the extent that it increases the chances of virus transmission. Some will walk, some will drive, some will take the bus, some will take the train, some will take the subway.

It's hardly going to be a mass congregation of 5,000 unvaccinated people on the same form of public transport. I also think you are being disingenuous if you believe all of them will just stay at home on match days rather than find something else to fill their time.

OK then, so what is the alternative if not some form of validation? Just do nothing?

In your example, what about the 90% of vaccinated fans? Should they be put at increased risk by the unvaccinated 10%?

Also, part of the drive is to get the remaining folk vaccinated. If someone medically cannot get vaccinated, then there dhould be a way they can get an exemption to be allowed to events. Could maybe even set up additional things to help them such as complimentary face mask or a system where they can get food brought to them or access to designated toilets etc In that case, the restricted fans would obly be those who have chosen consciously not to be vaccinated. If someone can tell me a valid reason why a healthy individual would be willing to refuse one, I'm all ears. But if they are making that choice, they need to accept the potential that they cannot do everything they want to do.

 

[Theyellowbox]

40 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Are you really comparing this to wearing a seat belt?

I'm comparing it to a safety issue. You wear a seat belt because you know that in the event of a crash it will give you an increased level of safety. You get a covid vaccine as you know it will give you increased safety if you catch covid.

Your point is around whether it is a good thing to tell them to do something they dont want to do? Well yes, if it is for their own good, whether they agree or not. 

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

OK then, so what is the alternative if not some form of validation? Just do nothing?

If there is no credible basis for implementing a policy, then 'do nothing' is in fact preferable to slapping arbitrary restrictions just to 'do something', yes. 

Quote

Also, part of the drive is to get the remaining folk vaccinated.

What evidence is there that restricting access to Scottish football grounds will achieve this goal? If there isn't any, then that purpose is clearly irrelevant. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by vikingTON

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

BTW has anyone tried to get their Vaccine Passport QR code. A dismal process.

I hope everyone kept their vaccine letter from months ago otherwise it is going to be even more hassle.

I genuinely believe that over half the population will struggle or need help to get their code and how to show it on their phone.

[johnnydun]

Just now, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

BTW has anyone tried to get their Vaccine Passport QR code. A dismal process.

I hope everyone kept their vaccine letter from months ago otherwise it is going to be even more hassle.

I genuinely believe that over half the population will struggle or need help to get their code and how to show it on their phone.

Screenshots all round!