The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

32 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's a shame that amidst all the SG's nonsense restrictions/'guidelines' for hospitality being ripped to shreds in the past 24 hours under the lightest scrutiny, that attention hasn't yet turned to risible '2000 standing or 5000 seated' limit for football matches and other events. 

What evidence is there that the virus is 2.5x more infectious on a terrace than in a stand? 

If the SG and its gormless advisors believed that the potential to mix with others in a standing area such as a terrace is the problem, how does this still apply now that social distancing requirements are being removed? It makes no fucking difference what setting you are in, now that there is now no legal requirement to maintain distancing anyway.

Continuing with a lower capacity for clubs with terracing - and so requiring them to apply for a combination of seating/standing capacity to a gormless council officer - is total fucking nonsense that needs to be binned. 

I think most of the stance comes from as far as they're concerned events like football aren't important. 

I'm sure they know all of what you've pointed out but they're looking at the outdoor events like football and the thought process is "what are the risks? Minimal. It's still not worth taking that minimal risk though for the sake of football". 

I'm not agreeing but that's the reality of their stance. 

 

 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Rangers apparently had approval for full crowds. 

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Rangers apparently had approval for full crowds. 

Yep, genuinely (pleasantly) surprised at this. My cynicism has been well and truly curbed.

[Clown Job]

Surely this means full crowds everywhere now 

I can’t see the argument from councils to deny others open gates 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

15 minutes ago, AJF said:

Yep, genuinely (pleasantly) surprised at this. My cynicism has been well and truly curbed.

I guess the details we don't get to see is what the they need to do to meet/mitigate the hoops that are in place after Monday. 

Must be less than now so easier to tick off. 

Just now, Clown Job said:

Surely this means full crowds everywhere now 

I can’t see the argument from councils to deny others open gates 

Was just saying similar in Saints thread. It would be hard to understand if Perth council said no to Saints for next Thursday and claiming somehow McDiarmid having say 9000 is more risky than 51,000. 

(At the same time I also won't be shocked if they try to say exactly that)

[realmadrid]

I still do wonder if some stadiums will remain home fans only for a while.

[Clown Job]

2 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

I still do wonder if some stadiums will remain home fans only for a while.

I don’t see why domestically at least 

People are allowed to travel now.

Edit: From my own experiences both Glasgow and Edinburgh city centres are packed again, including the trains between the two

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Clown Job

[realmadrid]

2 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

I don’t see why domestically at least 

People are allowed to travel now.

Edit: From my own experiences both Glasgow and Edinburgh city centres are packed again, including the trains between the two

 

 

For the majority of teams i can see this , but i think if they could get away with it the old firm would operate home fans only and use Covid risk assessment as the reason.

[HibsFan]

The problem is that this week-by-week basis leaves us completely in the lurch, and you just know that any rising case numbers in any local district will see the council kick right into capacity limits and other moronic restrictions.

[accies1874]

Are Celtic and Rangers' approvals just for their upcoming European matches or have they got permission for every home game now?

[realmadrid]

East fife are having to sell tickets and follow covid rules for next weeks Trust cup tie v our under 17's as until the league tell them they cannot operate under an other system.

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

Are Celtic and Rangers' approvals just for their upcoming European matches or have they got permission for every home game now?

The Rangers statement states that it is for all home games moving forward, subject to safety conditions set by Glasgow City Council.

[Clown Job]

 

Full house confirmed for Celtic also

[Swello]

1 hour ago, HibsFan said:

The problem is that this week-by-week basis leaves us completely in the lurch, and you just know that any rising case numbers in any local district will see the council kick right into capacity limits and other moronic restrictions.

I think this is a key point - by leaving it "by permission" they are reserving the right to roll things back on a very short notice basis - it feels like a very arbitrary process as we've already seen with different council's interpretations at Level 0. I will never get over the suspicion that football is seen as the "wrong" type of event where covid regs are concerned. 

and as @virginton says, the "standing vs sitting" thing feels like another arbitrary decision (or at least one made by people who have no real experience of going to games in Scotland). As we saw during the Euros or even on Sunday at Fir Park - having a seated stadium in no way guarantees that folk won't bunch together just as they would on a terracing - all-seaters are not the controlled environment that decision makers seem to think they are. 

 

[HibeeJibee]

I don't think getting up towards full capacities were ever likely to be the sole issue. With an end to 1m spacing - indoor and outdoor - it would have become unsustainable to justify keeping low capacity limits, individual seating or spaced seating.

Issue is more what other measures Provost Tumshie and Planning Officer Plumb might demand, to give their permission for a big crowd. We've seen lots of these extras in different council areas during tier 0... testing; temperature checks; cover your face at all times; no away fans; arrival windows; no food / drink. None of this was required by government. Plus if every council does it differently you'll certainly have confusion - especially for away fans dealing with 3/4/5 different sets of rules each month.

Further issue is whether Provost Tumshie will pull the plug when he "needs to be seen to be doing something" after a general rise or a local spike. Even if it's unconnected to outdoor sports spectating. He hasn't got many other levers to pull. He cannot close shops or shut roads. He won't close schools or shutter licensed premises. He may retain powers to make a big gesture by curtailing football crowds, if this system last for more than a few weeks.

Another possible issue is how to challenge a demand of Planning Officer Plumb if you think it's mistaken or unreasonable - there was explicitly no right of appeal nor review in tier 0. Plus of course the basic question - how long this might this council permission arrangement last? We're now out of the tier system, and no more 3-weekly reviews seem to be planned. Is this for 3 weeks? 3 months? all season? permanent? That doesn't seem to be been confirmed yet.

We may well be a ticky box form away from football broadly without restrictions; but I think people will reserve judgement until we see the actual detail starting to roll out around the grounds, and whether it sticks.

[invergowrie arab]

Local Authorities neither asked for or wanted this. There are a finite amount of H&S officers and they are busy doing other things like working on schools and ensuring safe working environments for LA staff as their first priority.

I would imagine these will sail through. Not that that makes the Scottish Govt throwing it on the LA desk any better.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

End of that working week. No response from Perth and Kinross council with a game on Thursday...

[The Wrong Car]

https://livingstonfc.co.uk/application-for-increased-capacity-for-aberdeen-tie-rejected/

Quite a bold statement against the council from Livi

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

6 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said:

https://livingstonfc.co.uk/application-for-increased-capacity-for-aberdeen-tie-rejected/

Quite a bold statement against the council from Livi

Don't blame them.

Shrug no urgency attitude from the council. 

Suspecting similar from Perth council.

[The Wrong Car]

Yeah as much as I appreciate the strain on them, I get the feeling a number of councils can't be arsed dealing with applications for this week when it all changes on Monday. Disappointing, but not surprising from WLC