The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion

[AJF]

10 minutes ago, DMCs said:

We got an increased capacity after complaining to the council I believe. They were definitely more than 8k at the Brighton game. Probably closer to 15k.

Yep, I saw they released more tickets after "discussions" with the council haha. I'd made that post when the attendance limits were originally announced.

Edited July 26, 2021 by AJF

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, AJF said:

I was referring to the 4,250 increase between the Brighton friendly on Saturday and the Real Madrid friendly a day later.

In that case
Maybe a friendly against Brighton  is less of a "special event" than Real Madrid

Edited July 26, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[AJF]

5 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

In that case
Maybe a friendly against Brighton  is less of a "special event" than Real Madrid

I think this helps highlight my original point, which was that these decisions are being made with no context given behind them a bit of transparency wouldn't go amiss. 

[ropy]

8 minutes ago, AJF said:

I think this helps highlight my original point, which was that these decisions are being made with no context given behind them a bit of transparency wouldn't go amiss. 

Write to the council 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

35 minutes ago, AJF said:

I think this helps highlight my original point, which was that these decisions are being made with no context given behind them a bit of transparency wouldn't go amiss. 

But would that really help? Honestly?

People would still complain that standards weren't being relaxed enough for things they personally happen to like while being relaxed too much for things that they personally don't. 

It's just that they'd do it in more tedious detail about quite what "Significance Category" things should be put in. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dons_1988]

30 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

But would that really help? Honestly?

People would still complain that standards weren't being relaxed enough for things they personally happen to like while being relaxed too much for things that they personally don't. 

It's just that they'd do it in more tedious detail about quite what "Significance Category" things should be put in. 

 

 

 

 

 

This. There’s a lot of indignance about this when it’s clearly going in the right direction. 

It was always going to be a phased return so the quibbling over who is being allowed what for different games is fairly pointless. 

[ropy]

22 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This. There’s a lot of indignance about this when it’s clearly going in the right direction. 

It was always going to be a phased return so the quibbling over who is being allowed what for different games is fairly pointless. 

Exactly, numbers are increasing weekly.  Going in the right direction.

[HibeeJibee]

For all their inconsistencies and red tape: at this point the level 0 limit/council exemptions/etc. are fairly unimportant in the grand scheme.

They only run up until 2nd weekend of the league season... encompassing 1 or 2 ties in EL... for which preparations will already largely have been made.

It all boils down to whether or not the 'end of restrictions' due August 9th includes an end within football (and without a sting of caveats in the tail), as previously indicated. If so no more empty seats between groups & individuals; no more artificial capacity limits; no 'bans' on away fans; no tests or passes; and difficulties are basically resolved.

We find-out a week tomorrow IIRC.

Edited July 26, 2021 by HibeeJibee

[AJF]

52 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

But would that really help? Honestly?

People would still complain that standards weren't being relaxed enough for things they personally happen to like while being relaxed too much for things that they personally don't. 

It's just that they'd do it in more tedious detail about quite what "Significance Category" things should be put in. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This. There’s a lot of indignance about this when it’s clearly going in the right direction. 

It was always going to be a phased return so the quibbling over who is being allowed what for different games is fairly pointless. 

I’m not saying I’m unhappy with the direction things are heading in, maybe I am in the minority here but I still think there are a lot of inconsistencies flagging up. I’m not sure it should just be a case of “overlook these because things are heading in the right direction and we will get full stadiums by X date”.

I appreciate the situation changes regularly and maybe it is quibbling, but I’m beyond scunnered with the whole thing at this point and decisions which seem illogical with no context or explanation offered (e.g. a difference of 4,250 fans being permitted inside the same stadium 24 hours apart) just exasperate it for me even further.

Rant over, I’ll leave it at that.

[Dons_1988]

8 minutes ago, AJF said:

 

I’m not saying I’m unhappy with the direction things are heading in, maybe I am in the minority here but I still think there are a lot of inconsistencies flagging up. I’m not sure it should just be a case of “overlook these because things are heading in the right direction and we will get full stadiums by X date”.

I appreciate the situation changes regularly and maybe it is quibbling, but I’m beyond scunnered with the whole thing at this point and decisions which seem illogical with no context or explanation offered (e.g. a difference of 4,250 fans being permitted inside the same stadium 24 hours apart) just exasperate it for me even further.

Rant over, I’ll leave it at that.

It’s being left to individual councils to make decisions they’ve never made before on the basis of fairly mind-numbing technicalities around access points and travel to and from the game etc.

I’d be absolutely astonished if there weren’t inconsistencies in essentially the first tranche of these assessments. 

If this was the way of it for the foreseeable I’d be right there with you wanting to know how the decision is being made but as long as we’re on a path im willing to overlook the discrepancies. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dons_1988

[topcat(The most tip top)]

22 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

It’s being left to individual councils to make decisions they’ve never made before on the basis of fairly mind-numbing technicalities around access points and travel to and from the game etc.

I’d be absolutely astonished if there weren’t inconsistencies in essentially the first tranche of these assessments. 

If this was the way of it for the foreseeable I’d be right there with you wanting to know how the decision is being made but as long as we’re on a path im willing to overlook the discrepancies. 

It's as if they're making it up as they go along!

But there's an obvious reason for that

 

 

[ropy]

The Scotsman reporting that Motherwell allowing Hibs fans in will see away fans for the first time since March 2020 but Motherwell fans were at Airdrie last week.  Have there been other instances of away fans this season or is it just a Motherwell thing? 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

27 minutes ago, ropy said:

The Scotsman reporting that Motherwell allowing Hibs fans in will see away fans for the first time since March 2020 but Motherwell fans were at Airdrie last week.  Have there been other instances of away fans this season or is it just a Motherwell thing? 

Away fans been present during the League Cup. 

Saints fans also at Arbroath last midweek (not sure if friendlies count) and also will be in attendance at County at the weekend.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[craigkillie]

Lots of people seem to have completely missed the fact that there have been away fans at loads of League Cup games and also at various non-league games, as well as friendlies.

Since May, the only restrictions have been on the overall capacity, not on where the fans come from. The only reason some clubs aren't letting away fans in is because the capacity limit means they're quite rightly prioritising their own season ticket holders.

[DukDukGoose]

With fans of every club having moans about their clubs processes here and there it's likely for the best it's been a slow start to get these issues ironed out.

[The Master]

14 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

It’s being left to individual councils to make decisions they’ve never made before on the basis of fairly mind-numbing technicalities around access points and travel to and from the game etc.

Architects have suddenly realised they're experts in taking original plans for buildings and overlaying them with various annotations that indicate "safe" access routes, one-way systems, "safe" spacing between "things that people use", capacity limits in toilets etc. I'm pretty sure these will form some sort of basis for club's applications and council's subsequent decisions.

Before I changed jobs, everyone in my old office was given access to a set of such plans. They showed what desks could be used at the same time in each open plan office space. The problem was it was clear they hadn't used any systematic method - they'd simply allowed each desk furthest from the door to be marked as "usable", drawn a 2m circle around it, marked any other desks in the circle as "unusable" then moved onto a desk outside the circle (picked seemingly at random), rinse and repeat until the room is done. 

It didn't take long for someone I work with to figure out that if they'd started by drawing the circles instead of arbitrarily picking a starting point, it was a relatively straightforward procedure to determine the optimal combination of desks that maximised capacity. 

[The Master]

Dundee will find out today if we'll be allowed 4,000 for the league opener on Saturday.

2,000 tickets for season ticket holders are being made available from today (new tickets needed because not everyone will be able to have their seat, even with an increased capacity). 

Up to 15 people from up to 15 households will be allowed to sit next to each other - in other words, the rules for "informal outdoor gatherings". Yet we'll still have to wear masks...

[AJF]

6 minutes ago, The Master said:

Architects have suddenly realised they're experts in taking original plans for buildings and overlaying them with various annotations that indicate "safe" access routes, one-way systems, "safe" spacing between "things that people use", capacity limits in toilets etc.

Aye, the toilets one made me chuckle. At Ibrox at the weekend there was a sign outside the toilets that said max. 14 capacity yet nobody there counting the numbers in and out. What did they expect me to do, pop in and do a quick head count before deciding if I could pish or not haha.

[craigkillie]

Aye, the toilets one made me chuckle. At Ibrox at the weekend there was a sign outside the toilets that said max. 14 capacity yet nobody there counting the numbers in and out. What did they expect me to do, pop in and do a quick head count before deciding if I could pish or not haha.

Have seen this everywhere. Supermarkets bad for it as well, with it saying 1 person allowed in, but you have no idea if anyone else is in there.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

28 minutes ago, The Master said:

Dundee will find out today if we'll be allowed 4,000 for the league opener on Saturday.

2,000 tickets for season ticket holders are being made available from today (new tickets needed because not everyone will be able to have their seat, even with an increased capacity). 

Up to 15 people from up to 15 households will be allowed to sit next to each other - in other words, the rules for "informal outdoor gatherings". Yet we'll still have to wear masks...

One thing in Dundees favour (hopefully) is that most other councils have made their decisions and plans are in place for as far as I can tell decent numbers being allowed.

Surely Dundee council won't want to go against that grain and be difficult?