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The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion


The Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Questionnaire  

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19 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

Yes, because Rangers fans have shown right the way through this pandemic that they can be trusted.

 

11 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Presumably because Scotland playing at home in the Euros was a special, potentially once in a lifetime opportunity, while Rangers playing a friendly at Ibrox is not?

Again, I’ll reiterate, this is nothing to do with just Rangers. I made my original point before any announcement for our game at the weekend.

Also, if rules are different for “potential once in a lifetime opportunities” then it suggests the clinical advice we are always told is used to inform decisions is free to be disregarded.

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26 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah, I’m being loose with ‘a few’. 

My point anyway is that with the removal of restrictions being imminent, I’m not sure it’s worth the outrage for the sake of a few weeks. 

That was my point. With no games to trial it at club level for the past couple of months then it's a bit unrealistic to want everything ramped up immediately.

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23 minutes ago, AJF said:

 

Again, I’ll reiterate, this is nothing to do with just Rangers.

Yeah it's only you mentioning Rangers though. We only had 1000 fans at McDiarmid yesterday, but I understand its because its a friendly so there's zero point ramming it full of folk.

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1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yeah it's only you mentioning Rangers though. We only had 1000 fans at McDiarmid yesterday, but I understand its because its a friendly so there's zero point ramming it full of folk.

I mentioned Rangers after my initial post because we had released a statement confirming our attendance was being limited to 2,000 which is relevant to the debate of fans getting back into stadiums. Folk have then tried to move the focus to Rangers fan behaviour which is completely irrelevant to the debate of fans getting back into stadiums.

I never once said we should ram stadiums full so I’m not sure where you’ve got that idea. I’ve been consistently saying that domestic clubs are being treated inconsistently. If you disagree then fair enough, but there’s too many unanswered questions for me to change my opinion.

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30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yeah it's only you mentioning Rangers though. We only had 1000 fans at McDiarmid yesterday, but I understand its because its a friendly so there's zero point ramming it full of folk.

You've got more faces than the toon clock. 

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2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Presumably because Scotland playing at home in the Euros was a special, potentially once in a lifetime opportunity, while Rangers playing a friendly at Ibrox is not?

Ah so covid knew scotland hadn't been to a final in ages and decided to take 4 weeks off did it? 

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2 hours ago, ropy said:

We had zero fans, then a few hundred, now a couple of thousand and in a few weeks even more.  Seems a reasonable approach, heading in the right direction?

Or look at it this way

Glasgow had zero fans, then 12k with another 6k daily at a fanzone set up in a public park, now back down to a couple of thousand, 

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2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah, I’m being loose with ‘a few’. 

My point anyway is that with the removal of restrictions being imminent, I’m not sure it’s worth the outrage for the sake of a few weeks. 

Do you trust them to remove all restrictions relating to stadiums in a month? 

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7 hours ago, Willie adie said:

Why does football have this sense of entitlement it's done f**k all but annoy, disobey,suit itself since this pandemic started at every opportunity picking a fight with the Scottish Government

Perhaps if it showed a bit more humility, less arrogance and self interest or would be given va more sympathetic hearing

This is totally wrong on the contract no one has "picked a fight with the Scottish Govt" despite the total hypocrisy of the whole Euros event and the Scottish national team.

Very few football fans have been near a ground for over 15 months therefore 99% have been patient and backed the Scot Gov in their efforts to tackle the pandemic.  In return they have been treated very poorly by the Scot Gov and no one has said a word against them.

This is not about individual clubs as stated previously most grounds could open normally as they are big enough to cope with their normal average.  

The group of clubs with an average of more than 2000 supporters need to work together and with the SG to find a sensible compromise to allow more than 2000 into their grounds as soon as possible not the 9th of never.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 54_and_counting said:

Ah so covid knew scotland hadn't been to a final in ages and decided to take 4 weeks off did it? 

No. 

But that's why the government decided to allow more fans to those games than club games.

You're not really missing out if you miss out on 5 league games considering you've likely got 20 seasons worth of games left in your life.

Games like the Euros at Hampden could be once in a lifetime, so it's worth taking the risk to allow more fans to experience that.

My thoughts on rugby and the government are clear, they're clearly happier to give them more fans due to classism.

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42 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

No. 

But that's why the government decided to allow more fans to those games than club games.

You're not really missing out if you miss out on 5 league games considering you've likely got 20 seasons worth of games left in your life.

Games like the Euros at Hampden could be once in a lifetime, so it's worth taking the risk to allow more fans to experience that.

My thoughts on rugby and the government are clear, they're clearly happier to give them more fans due to classism.

The cynic in me believes they let fans in after UEFA threatened to withdraw matches from Hampden, but we’ve no way of knowing either way.

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1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

No. 

But that's why the government decided to allow more fans to those games than club games.

You're not really missing out if you miss out on 5 league games considering you've likely got 20 seasons worth of games left in your life.

Games like the Euros at Hampden could be once in a lifetime, so it's worth taking the risk to allow more fans to experience that.

My thoughts on rugby and the government are clear, they're clearly happier to give them more fans due to classism.

Worth taking the risk? We literally shut the country down for over a year to minimise said risk, put people out of jobs, absolutely fucked the economy, all because they didn't want to risk anything

Even when we took the risk by allowing games at hampden with large crowds, the cafe up the road from it was still asking its customers to wear face masks when not at their table because the government says theres still enough of a risk lf passing the virus while walking to the toilet

2 people on a bus that holds 65 people still need to wear a mask because again the government deems that not wearing a mask is too risky 

But 12k at hampden, 3k at a fanzone twice daily (tell me again what part of watching the euro game between france and switzerland in the fanzone is a once in a lifetime thing) is worth throwing all that "risk" away

 

 

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2 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

Worth taking the risk? We literally shut the country down for over a year to minimise said risk, put people out of jobs, absolutely fucked the economy, all because they didn't want to risk anything

Even when we took the risk by allowing games at hampden with large crowds, the cafe up the road from it was still asking its customers to wear face masks when not at their table because the government says theres still enough of a risk lf passing the virus while walking to the toilet

2 people on a bus that holds 65 people still need to wear a mask because again the government deems that not wearing a mask is too risky 

But 12k at hampden, 3k at a fanzone twice daily (tell me again what part of watching the euro game between france and switzerland in the fanzone is a once in a lifetime thing) is worth throwing all that "risk" away

I want restrictions lifted m8, I'm simply pointing out the reasoning behind them allowing larger crowds for the Euros than domestic games.

I'd expect Ibrox to be allowed 10k plus for any European games you have before August 9th, if there is any?

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1 hour ago, AJF said:

The cynic in me believes they let fans in after UEFA threatened to withdraw matches from Hampden, but we’ve no way of knowing either way.

They definitely would have pulled the games If they didnt allow fans. Dublin and Bilbao both lost their games for that reason. 

Agree with @RandomGuy. is saying re why they allowed it. You dont have to approve/agree with the reasoning but thats definitely why they allowed it. Not allowing huge numbers into friendlies right now is almost irrelevant as well. While we pretty much all want as many fans as possible back it doesnt make much sense to allow loads of fans to meaningless games which is out of step with the restrictions lifting nationally for what is a glorified training game. 

European games & league games should be target for me.

Clubs should be allowed to keep increasing their numbers as the friendlies progress as well as they continue to prove they can jump through the hundreds of hoops. Its not just "but thats only 5% capacity and hAmPdEn HaD 12,000" its also about can the club be in control and manage the numbers they're allowed. Saints had 1000 last night and while I dont believe there was problems at the game whatsoever there was problems getting tickets out to people etc and even at 5pm yesterday people hadn't received a ticket for entry which would have been unmanageable teething problems if they were allowed loads more. 

Once "most of the legal restrictions" are removed then we'll all be able to act like big bairns again and hug each other when we score etc! 

 

Edited by Mr Positive, sometimes.
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19 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

They definitely would have pulled the games If they didnt allow fans. Dublin and Bilbao both lost their games for that reason. 

Agree with @RandomGuy. is saying re why they allowed it. You dont have to approve/agree with the reasoning but thats definitely why they allowed it. Not allowing huge numbers into friendlies right now is almost irrelevant as well. While we pretty much all want as many fans as possible back it doesnt make much sense to allow loads of fans to meaningless games which is out of step with the restrictions lifting nationally for what is a glorified training game. 

European games & league games should be target for me.

Clubs should be allowed to keep increasing their numbers as the friendlies progress as well as they continue to prove they can jump through the hundreds of hoops. Its not just "but thats only 5% capacity and hAmPdEn HaD 12,000" its also about can the club be in control and manage the numbers they're allowed. Saints had 1000 last night and while I dont believe there was problems at the game whatsoever there was problems getting tickets out to people etc and even at 5pm yesterday people hadn't received a ticket for entry which would have been unmanageable teething problems if they were allowed loads more. 

Once "most of the legal restrictions" are removed then we'll all be able to act like big bairns again and hug each other when we score etc! 

 

I just don't believe that this government/local authorities, who have been notoriously cautious throughout the whole pandemic decided to allow fans into Hampden in such numbers out the goodness of their hearts solely on the basis that they felt sorry for fans that would potentially miss out.

Also in terms of current domestic restrictions, this isn't solely for some meaningless friendly matches - league cup games have already started and are bound by the same restrictions. Unless, of course, you think the league cup is a glorified friendly tournament - but I'd be surprised if a St Johnstone fan thought that after last season haha.

I'm not saying this percentage or that percentage should be allowed into stadiums, I'm just saying that domestic football is being treated very differently to the Scotland matches. Some may feel it is justified - in my opinion it's not. The type of match or event should not dictate how stringently clinical advice is applied. We can agree to disagree.

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A very concerning quote from government on exemptions for the 2000 capacity limit:

“This process is designed to enable a small number of internationally significant events to take place in 2021 with appropriate Covid-19 mitigations in place, based on extensive advance planning across multiple organisations.

“This process does not apply to regular domestic football matches.”

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/19444247.scottish-government-respond-rangers-disappointed-number-fans-arsenal-match/

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That doesn't really make sense given that Rangers have already received an increased capacity for that game compared to the actual 500 fan limit that applies to Glasgow until Monday. I think Hearts and Morton have also both received dispensation in a similar way.

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So, reading that, nothing new has really came to light. The SG approved the dispensation to allow up to 12,000 fans into Hampden but this dispensation does not extend to domestic matches where local authorities will review applications for additional fans on a case by case basis in line with guidelines that we are not privy to.

This will be based on the same clinical advice that would've been provided for the Euro matches but will result in a completely different outcome. So, as many suspected, the clinical advice is free to be applied inconsistently depending on what type of event is taking place.

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I've also just been able to purchase a ticket for our match away to Blackpool next Wednesday where there are no capacity restrictions and we have an away allocation of 4,000. Having to leave the country to get my football fix 😄

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