The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion

[54_and_counting]

And so the further boot in the baws to scottish football fans is handed out today

[Eder]

On 09/07/2021 at 21:55, 54_and_counting said:

Why not 20k+ crowds, infact stadiums should be full, everyone seen the images of the queues for alcohol at the rugby, and not a peep from the government regarding how slack the restrictions were enforced at murrayfield, 

If the sfa/spfl won't push for far more relaxed restrictions then the whole of scottish football should come together as one and force change, 

12k fans at hampden, fans who will likely have travelled from all over the country to get there, 12k fans at celtic park, ibrox, tynecastle, or any other stadium, chances are the fans wont be from as far travelled as the tartan army, 

Only because I don't expect them to go from 2000 to 20k+ in one go.

However it's getting ridiculous now, 2000 in grounds of holding 20k to 60k especially as pubs are rammed in all the major towns.

Clubs have got to get together and make a stand.

 

[craigkillie]

And so the further boot in the baws to scottish football fans is handed out today

On what basis? Absolutely nothing has changed for football in terms of what was originally planned. The August date was always the big one.

[54_and_counting]

20 minutes ago, Eder said:

Only because I don't expect them to go from 2000 to 20k+ in one go.

However it's getting ridiculous now, 2000 in grounds of holding 20k to 60k especially as pubs are rammed in all the major towns.

Clubs have got to get together and make a stand.

 

Why shouldn't they go from 2k to 20k, thats only 10x, they were planning on 600 at the scottish final then 12k a few weeks later at the euros, when the country was in a worse state in terms of vaccinations and tier restrictions 

[54_and_counting]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

On what basis? Absolutely nothing has changed for football in terms of what was originally planned. The August date was always the big one.

Because they allowed more widespread fans into a fanzone than they will into stadiums, 

Because some stadiums are getting 20% of their capacity while others are getting 10% or lower

Absolutely no science behind allowing 2k fans into grounds and not a percentage based allowance 

County get to fill their ground to 33% capacity, yet aberdeen get less than 10%

[Billy Jean King]

If we do get confirmation that we are returning to full capacity on Mon 9 Aug, the full card the weekend of 7/8 August should be moved to the Monday night (obviously making exceptions for the Euro clubs if that interferes). Manic Monday.

[craigkillie]

Because they allowed more widespread fans into a fanzone than they will into stadiums, 
Because some stadiums are getting 20% of their capacity while others are getting 10% or lower
Absolutely no science behind allowing 2k fans into grounds and not a percentage based allowance 
County get to fill their ground to 33% capacity, yet aberdeen get less than 10%

2000 is the minimum though, clubs with larger stadiums can apply for larger crowds as Aberdeen and Celtic have already done.

[54_and_counting]

42 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

2000 is the minimum though, clubs with larger stadiums can apply for larger crowds as Aberdeen and Celtic have already done.

Why should they need to apply, why not just put in a % of capacity, 

Why should clubs have to beg for fans in their ground when the scottish government were happy to throw 6k fans into glasgow green on a daily basis and 12k into hampden when the restrictions were higher (and lets not get started on the rugby allowances, booze on site etc) 

Even better is that the tartan army come from all over scotland, all converging on glasgow twice with no care by the government from where they came from

Will clubs like Aberdeen have that, will hearts at tynecastle have fans coming from across the country, not a chance, not anywhere near the travelling the tartan army did, 

[invergowrie arab]

1 hour ago, 54_and_counting said:

Why should they need to apply, why not just put in a % of capacity, 

Why should clubs have to beg for fans in their ground when the scottish government were happy to throw 6k fans into glasgow green on a daily basis and 12k into hampden when the restrictions were higher (and lets not get started on the rugby allowances, booze on site etc) 

Even better is that the tartan army come from all over scotland, all converging on glasgow twice with no care by the government from where they came from

Will clubs like Aberdeen have that, will hearts at tynecastle have fans coming from across the country, not a chance, not anywhere near the travelling the tartan army did, 

None of which has the slightest relevance to you mewling about something happening today exactly as it was published it would weeks ago. 

[Billy Jean King]

Why should they need to apply, why not just put in a % of capacity, 
Why should clubs have to beg for fans in their ground when the scottish government were happy to throw 6k fans into glasgow green on a daily basis and 12k into hampden when the restrictions were higher (and lets not get started on the rugby allowances, booze on site etc) 
Even better is that the tartan army come from all over scotland, all converging on glasgow twice with no care by the government from where they came from
Will clubs like Aberdeen have that, will hearts at tynecastle have fans coming from across the country, not a chance, not anywhere near the travelling the tartan army did, 

At least they came from all over Scotland as opposed to NI or RoI !

[Eder]

The ridiculous thing is most Scottish grounds are normally empty anyway and could easily accommodate fans in a safe environment.

It's only really the four Glasgow and Edinburgh grounds plus Aberdeen and Dundee United that are an issue.  It shouldn't be too difficult for some compromise with the Scot Gov.

[johnnydun]

7 minutes ago, Eder said:

The ridiculous thing is most Scottish grounds are normally empty anyway and could easily accommodate fans in a safe environment.

It's only really Falkirk that are an issue.  It shouldn't be too difficult for some compromise with the Scot Gov.

FTFY.

[54_and_counting]

9 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

None of which has the slightest relevance to you mewling about something happening today exactly as it was published it would weeks ago. 

Of course it does, we've had to live our lives the last year based on these tier systems

Tier 2, 12k fans in hampden, 3k x2 at a fanzone everyday

Tier 1, 16.5k at murrayfield with alcohol sold on site 

Tier 0, 2k fans inside club stadiums 

There has been no explanation why 12k was safe in hampden but bottin parkhead or ibrox, no explanation why 2k are allowed in a 6k seater stadium and only 2k in a 20k seater stadium 

Theres absolutely no guarantees that august 9th she'll open them up fully, if anything, pre season friendlies is a good test to see if anything goes wrong with fuller stadiums before the full opening

[craigkillie]

 
There has been no explanation why 12k was safe in hampden but bottin parkhead or ibrox, no explanation why 2k are allowed in a 6k seater stadium and only 2k in a 20k seater stadium 

Because the SFA and SRU applied for those sorts of numbers and were granted it.

[AJF]

29 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

 

 

Because the SFA and SRU applied for those sorts of numbers and were granted it.

 

 

I am more interested in why there is an arbitrary 2,000 limit in the first place. Maxwell previously said the reason that they were allowed to welcome up to 12,000 supporters to Hampden was because they'd been given special dispensation to ignore the 2m social distancing requirements and it was reduced to 1m. However, as far as I can see (and I may be wrong), 2m distancing in stadia is still required in Level 0 for some strange reason. This is contradictory to the fact that outdoor and indoor social distancing has since been reduced to 1m. 

So why are they imposing a 2m social distancing rule in stadia rather than 1m? And why are they imposing an initial 2,000 limit rather than just say "stadiums can accommodate as many fans as possible as long as social distancing is observed"? Why do clubs need to apply for more when premises up and down the country are trusted to comply with social distancing rules and allow as many people into their establishments they feel is appropriate? On what basis was this "special dispensation" granted to the SFA for Hampden (my hunch is it had a lot to do with £)?

I am also quite sceptical about requests being approved as well. The message is that clubs can apply for additional spectators and this may be granted depending on the event. Why does it depend on what the event is if whatever their criteria is, is met? This all points back to them accepting 12,000 at Hampden because they were flat out told by UEFA that Hampden would be removed as a host stadium if they didn't comply therefore they deemed that event more important (financially lucrative) which would be nonsense and totally goes against their "decisions made on the back of clinical advice" trope they always offer.

There are so many holes, so many inconsistencies and so many questions that need answered. It is clear football clubs are being held to a different standard and there doesn't seem to be enough being said about it.

Edited July 14, 2021 by AJF

[AJF]

And right on cue, Rangers just announce that after discussion with the Scottish Government, we have been limited to 2,000 fans for our Friendly against Arsenal at the weekend. A complete joke.

Edited July 14, 2021 by AJF

[Willie adie]

Why does football have this sense of entitlement it's done f**k all but annoy, disobey,suit itself since this pandemic started at every opportunity picking a fight with the Scottish Government

Perhaps if it showed a bit more humility, less arrogance and self interest or would be given va more sympathetic hearing

[AJF]

12 minutes ago, Willie adie said:

Why does football have this sense of entitlement it's done f**k all but annoy, disobey,suit itself since this pandemic started at every opportunity picking a fight with the Scottish Government

Perhaps if it showed a bit more humility, less arrogance and self interest or would be given va more sympathetic hearing

This is exactly the type of view the SG are hoping people have when they impose ridiculous restrictions.

It doesn't matter one jot what sense of entitlement football has - any decision that impacts a business's ability to trade normally HAS to be based on clinical advice and backed up with solid reasoning. It's not enough to limit a business's source of income because you think they are "entitled".

Edited July 14, 2021 by AJF

[Forever_blueco]

39 minutes ago, Willie adie said:

Why does football have this sense of entitlement it's done f**k all but annoy, disobey,suit itself since this pandemic started at every opportunity picking a fight with the Scottish Government

Perhaps if it showed a bit more humility, less arrogance and self interest or would be given va more sympathetic hearing

Hi Nicola 

[Forever_blueco]

“it's done f**k all but annoy, disobey,suit itself since this pandemic started at every opportunity”

could easily be applied to those in Holyrood and Westminister to be honest 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Forever_blueco