Rank the Managers - Championship Edition

[HoBNob]

Can't see any criteria as to how Johnston, McPake or Kerr can be above Crawford tbh. 

The standard of manager doesn't seem great in this league. 

1.McGlynn

2.Neilson 

3.Robertson

4.Campbell

5.Grant

6.Crawford

7.Johnston

8.Kerr

9.McElhone

10.McPake

 

 

 

[Otis Blue]

I think if Queens stay up this season that Allan Johnston has to get some credit.  He started with what, 3 players on the books, and had to then rapidly build almost an entirely new squad capable of staying up with what I interpreted to be a small budget set for the prime goal of keeping us financially stable in a season that wouldn't have any gate income.  So he's had to be innovative and has pulled together a squad of potential talent from our lower leagues, unknowns from the English non-leagues and from the loan market for young up and coming players at bigger clubs.  That came with plenty of risk (remember what happened to Paul Hartley at Falkirk) and I wasn't alone among the Queens fans for having real fear for what the season might hold.  But at the risk of tempting too much fate, it looks like (injuries and other stuff permitting) he might just possibly achieve the task set for him.  So when you compare AJ with the likes of Neilson and the huge budget he's had, you have to think that AJ has done decent work so far.

[SUPERSOUTH]

Before I purchase the live stream for tomorrow's game is the game in any doubt? 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

McElhone is a fitness coach who was given the job till the end of the season because we didn't want to appoint a new manager. He didn't even want the job. 

He's bottom of the list by default in the same way as he's interim manager of Morton by default. 

I'm not convinced that we'd be better off (leaving aside costs) now if Hopkin had been in charge. You could perhaps make a case that we would have done better in the Arbroath and Queen of the South games, which were huge games to avoid defeat in, but we wouldn't have laid a glove on Dunfermline or God knows who else we beat. 

The reality is that we have the worst squad in the division since the January transfer window opened and our results reflect that.

[Scottydog]

1. Campbell

2. McGlynn

3. Robertson

4. Grant

5. Neilson 

6. Crawford

7. Johnston

8. Kerr

9. McElhone

10. McPake

My heart says McGlynn is the best but my heads says DC likely has the most experience and ability to get a team of lesser parts to gel and give it's best.  With money tight at ICT Robbo is getting found out where in the past I'm sure he was able to spend his way out of trouble. Peter Grant does well with limited resources but needs to find results even more. Neilson is a less experienced version of Robbo, had he no cash to play with I think he'd be pretty hopeless. Neither Johnston nor Crawford excite me much, both go through wee spells but eventually run out of ideas.  Kerr inherited a decent side and in trying to improve has slowly gone backwards. McEhone simply isn't a manager and neither is McPake! The latter probably has the 2nd biggest budget in the league but hasn't a clue, cant help but wonder where  Dundee would be if Strachan were in charge.

[vikingTON]

40 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

I think if Queens stay up this season that Allan Johnston has to get some credit.  He started with what, 3 players on the books, and had to then rapidly build almost an entirely new squad capable of staying up with what I interpreted to be a small budget set for the prime goal of keeping us financially stable in a season that wouldn't have any gate income.  So he's had to be innovative and has pulled together a squad of potential talent from our lower leagues, unknowns from the English non-leagues and from the loan market for young up and coming players at bigger clubs.  

Queen of the South certainly had a low budget and Johnston had a thankless task at the start of the season, that's not the case now. It's quite clear that Queens have used news of the government grant to significantly upgrade their squad, which is fair enough given their caution and having established a stable basis to do that (as opposed to clubs that have chucked stupid contracts around in both windows). 

Calling Rangers and shipping in a stack of loan players is not an 'innovative' approach to the transfer market though, not even remotely.

Edited February 19, 2021 by vikingTON

[DavidWatt26]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

Queen of the South certainly had a low budget and Johnston had a thankless task at the start of the season, that's certainly not the case now. It's quite clear that Queens have used news of the government grant to significantly upgrade their squad, which is fair enough given their caution and having established a stable basis to do that (as opposed to clubs that have chucked stupid contracts around in both windows). 

Calling Rangers and shipping in a stack of loan players is not an 'innovative' approach to the transfer market though, not even remotely.

Oh dear 

[parsforlife]

1. McGlynn

2. Neilson

3. Robertson

4. Campbell

5. Crawford 

6. Kerr 

7. Grant

8. Johnston 

9. McElhone

10. McPake 
 

Order of 2 to 8 could change very fast.  For example I have Robertson in 3rd.  But If inverness do as badly in their other games in hand as they did against queens he could well be in a relegation fight. 

When these threads have been done for strikers etc we sometimes compare them to what we had 10 years ago.

this is that list( in finishing order)

1. McIntyre- proved to be the highlight of his management career. 

2. McGlynn-  found himself back in the same place

3. Presley.  Repeated failure

4.  Brannigan.  Contract not renewed, hasn’t managed since.

5. McColl,  resigned near the end of the season due to his gambling problems. 

6. Chisholm/ Barry Smith.  Chisholm hasn’t managed since, Smith had great success keeping them up, been a miserable failure everything he has attempted since.

7. Allan Moore.  Another who has barely had a career in the 10 years since, stayed at morton for a little while longer and some time in arbroath, not managed in 5 years.

8. Mcstay/calderwood.  Calderwood did very well fixing the shambles mcstay created.  

9. Nicholl, one of the few I’d rate, but he’s more comfortable as an assistant and has got better jobs in that role.

10. O’Neill/ Scott.   I have no idea who O’Neill was.  Scott’s last job.

Compared to that list I reckon we’re better off with this year’s batch.

Edited February 19, 2021 by parsforlife

[Fae_the_'briggs]

22 minutes ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

Before I purchase the live stream for tomorrow's game is the game in any doubt? 

I think you've taken a wrong turn somewhere. 

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

I find it hard to compare managers in a league where they're being judged on wildly different standards.  Objectively someone like McGlynn or Campbell is doing a good job for their club, but would they be double figures in front with Hearts?  Neilson gets slaughtered mainly because he's been in positions where he's got a massive advantage financially, but then that doesn't mean he's a bad manager and he did a decent job in the top flight.

 

10. McPake.

[Rovers1992/1993]

I find it hard to compare managers in a league where they're being judged on wildly different standards.  Objectively someone like McGlynn or Campbell is doing a good job for their club, but would they be double figures in front with Hearts?  Neilson gets slaughtered mainly because he's been in positions where he's got a massive advantage financially, but then that doesn't mean he's a bad manager and he did a decent job in the top flight.
 
10. McPake.

Neilson gets slaughtered as with the budget he’s on, he shouldn’t have lost to Rovers, Dunfermline, Alloa, Dundee etc.

[Skyline Drifter]

37 minutes ago, virginton said:

Queen of the South certainly had a low budget and Johnston had a thankless task at the start of the season, that's not the case now. It's quite clear that Queens have used news of the government grant to significantly upgrade their squad, which is fair enough given their caution and having established a stable basis to do that (as opposed to clubs that have chucked stupid contracts around in both windows). 

Calling Rangers and shipping in a stack of loan players is not an 'innovative' approach to the transfer market though, not even remotely.

It is?  We added Breen and Mebude on loan from Rangers and Jones on loan from Middlesbrough and sent Robinson back to Motherwell.

The winger switch is a change of personnel not a splashing of budget and we were always supposed to have a 3rd centre half for the season. Due to circumstances a deal for one fell through on deadline day in October leaving us one down which was addressed as soon as the January window opened. And then Mebude was added effectively using the money saved in the first half of the season by running a centre half short.

Our squad is better, but it's not due to splashing the Govt grant to any significant extent any more than Morton bringing in Johnson and Sterling in exchange for McPake and McIver is (I know you also lost McAlister).

 

[Otis Blue]

1 hour ago, Otis Blue said:

I think if Queens stay up this season that Allan Johnston has to get some credit.  He started with what, 3 players on the books, and had to then rapidly build almost an entirely new squad capable of staying up with what I interpreted to be a small budget set for the prime goal of keeping us financially stable in a season that wouldn't have any gate income.  So he's had to be innovative and has pulled together a squad of potential talent from our lower leagues, unknowns from the English non-leagues and from the loan market for young up and coming players at bigger clubs.  That came with plenty of risk (remember what happened to Paul Hartley at Falkirk) and I wasn't alone among the Queens fans for having real fear for what the season might hold.  But at the risk of tempting too much fate, it looks like (injuries and other stuff permitting) he might just possibly achieve the task set for him.  So when you compare AJ with the likes of Neilson and the huge budget he's had, you have to think that AJ has done decent work so far.

 

43 minutes ago, virginton said:

Queen of the South certainly had a low budget and Johnston had a thankless task at the start of the season, that's not the case now. It's quite clear that Queens have used news of the government grant to significantly upgrade their squad, which is fair enough given their caution and having established a stable basis to do that (as opposed to clubs that have chucked stupid contracts around in both windows). 

Calling Rangers and shipping in a stack of loan players is not an 'innovative' approach to the transfer market though, not even remotely.

Yes, OK but you're being a wee bit selective there ....... I used innovative for his overall broad approach to rebuilding that squad, including but not limited to the loan market.

[Otis Blue]

30 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I find it hard to compare managers in a league where they're being judged on wildly different standards.  Objectively someone like McGlynn or Campbell is doing a good job for their club, but would they be double figures in front with Hearts?  Neilson gets slaughtered mainly because he's been in positions where he's got a massive advantage financially, but then that doesn't mean he's a bad manager and he did a decent job in the top flight.

 

10. McPake.

You're right of course in that it is hard to do a comparison on a totally like-for-like basis because they've all had different issues to deal with and rating these guys is a very subjective thing - but of course that's why we like the fitba and is why we are on these forums in the first place.  That said, I think there's not much doubt that Dick Campbell and John McGlynn have done fine work so far at their clubs.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

15 minutes ago, Rovers1992/1993 said:

Neilson gets slaughtered as with the budget he’s on, he shouldn’t have lost to Rovers, Dunfermline, Alloa, Dundee etc.

Managers lose games.  My point wasn't necessarily he's a particularly good manager, but I'm pretty sure giving Dick Campbell the Hearts job wouldn't have resulted in 16 straight wins.

 

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It is?  We added Breen and Mebude on loan from Rangers and Jones on loan from Middlesbrough and sent Robinson back to Motherwell.

The winger switch is a change of personnel not a splashing of budget and we were always supposed to have a 3rd centre half for the season. Due to circumstances a deal for one fell through on deadline day in October leaving us one down which was addressed as soon as the January window opened. And then Mebude was added effectively using the money saved in the first half of the season by running a centre half short.

Our squad is better, but it's not due to splashing the Govt grant to any significant extent any more than Morton bringing in Johnson and Sterling in exchange for McPake and McIver is (I know you also lost McAlister).

Morton also lost a manager, coach and chief executive (good riddance Dave!) in addition to the above so yeah it's not actually like for like, though our bin fire of a club should not be the benchmark.

If the SG grant money wasn't there then none of these deals would be happening and the clubs that have committed funds to them are getting the pay-off on the pitch right now. I just don't think Johnston deserves particular credit for this until the season as a whole pans out. 

[Ludo*1]

46 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

1. McGlynn

2. Neilson

3. Robertson

4. Campbell

5. Crawford 

6. Kerr 

7. Grant

8. Johnston 

9. McElhone

10. McPake 
 

Order of 2 to 8 could change very fast.  For example I have Robertson in 3rd.  But If inverness do as badly in their other games in hand as they did against queens he could well be in a relegation fight. 

When these threads have been done for strikers etc we sometimes compare them to what we had 10 years ago.

this is that list( in finishing order)

1. McIntyre- proved to be the highlight of his management career. 

2. McGlynn-  found himself back in the same place

3. Presley.  Repeated failure

4.  Brannigan.  Contract not renewed, hasn’t managed since.

5. McColl,  resigned near the end of the season due to his gambling problems. Didn’t too much 

6. Chisholm/ Barry Smith.  Chisholm hasn’t managed since, Smith had great success keeping them up, been a miserable failure everything he has attempted since.

7. Allan Moore.  Another who has barely had a career in the 10 years since, stayed at morton for a little while longer and some time in arbroath, not managed in 5 years.

8. Mcstay/calderwood.  Calderwood did very well fixing the shambles mcstay created.  

9. Nicholl, one of the few I’d rate, but he’s more comfortable as an assistant and has got better jobs in that role.

10. O’Neill/ Scott.   I have no idea who O’Neill was.  Scott’s last job.

Compared to that list I reckon we’re better off with this year’s batch.

Did you just rate Jocky Scott as the worst manager in a league that contained Willie McStay, Allan Moore, Gordon Chisholm, Kenny Brannigan, Steven Pressley & Jim McIntyre?

[vikingTON]

10 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

 

Yes, OK but you're being a wee bit selective there ....... I used innovative for his overall broad approach to rebuilding that squad, including but not limited to the loan market.

It's really not any different to what Raith have done, it's really just the standard operating procedure for similar-sized clubs at this level. And the change from 'dung' to 'decent' has been brought about since the transfer window opened and loans were brought in to address the significant flaws in the squad. 

For an innovative approach I'd be thinking of efforts such as that of Allan Moore in 2013, who paid for his own scouting trip to watch the Slovak lower leagues and bring in a couple of super-cheap ringers to add to our squad. The team as a whole was of course utterly abysmal and went down, but Livingston signed the pair of them in January after Moore was gone and the idea made sense. 

[Skyline Drifter]

11 minutes ago, virginton said:

Morton also lost a manager, coach and chief executive (good riddance Dave!) in addition to the above so yeah it's not actually like for like, though our bin fire of a club should not be the benchmark.

If the SG grant money wasn't there then none of these deals would be happening and the clubs that have committed funds to them are getting the pay-off on the pitch right now. I just don't think Johnston deserves particular credit for this until the season as a whole pans out. 

Fair point on the Morton comparison. I didn't realise McKinnon had actually gone already.

I think I can say with certainty none of the the January movements we made would have been one iota different if we hadn't had the Scottish Govt money. They were mostly in discussion before we even knew about that. At the very most the only thing 'extra' is Mebude and he's played a game and a half before Saturday's indiscretion. It remains to be seen what further contribution if any he might make. Even then we've tried to get Mebude in the previous two windows at least so I don't think it's really anything different. You can credit Allan Johnston or not, that's up to you, but I don't think the suggestion we're spending grant money extra is either true or fair.

[Otis Blue]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

..... the change from 'dung' to 'decent' has been brought about since the transfer window opened and loans were brought in to address the significant flaws in the squad.....

Yes, partly but the improvement started away to Raith before the window opened and in part its also been down to moving players positionally and the last two good results have been achieved without arguably our best player this season (Connor Shields) being out injured.