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Null & Void or an 18 Game Season?

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3 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

Clubs "invested in squads" knowing full well that null & void could be an outcome. No one cares if individual clubs can "justify" expenditure in the present circumstances.

All decision carry risk and if heavy investments, in the circumstances of a global pandemic, were made, the clubs have no one to blame but themselves if they find themsleves distressed financially.

Also rather bizarre to claim that there is "no correlation" between lockdown restrictions easing and football re-starting. Lockdown restrictions easing will inform when football can re-start.

I get that Falkirk are desperate for promotion but it looks like it'll take another year.

If nobody cared about whether expenditure is justified in a football club then there probably wouldn't be many Scottish clubs left. 

If there was a correlation, then why was the suspension not implemented from Boxing day when literally every other business deemed not essential was forced to close? It has been dealt with separately from lockdown measures every since they were first eased in the summer. 

To be honest I'm hardly confident of getting promotion but when their are clear pathways to getting clubs playing which are just being totally disregarded then it doesn't quite sit right with me. 

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Clubs "invested in squads" knowing full well that null & void could be an outcome. No one cares if individual clubs can "justify" expenditure in the present circumstances.
All decision carry risk and if heavy investments, in the circumstances of a global pandemic, were made, the clubs have no one to blame but themselves if they find themsleves distressed financially.

This is not an unfair argument if there is no option to null and void but that’s simply not the case here. As has been stated many times we can start in over a months time and complete the season with 18 games and play offs, so no excuse for non completion rather that the self interest of so many clubs in avoiding relegation at any cost.....

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Well the club I follow isn't in much danger of relegation. Quite the opposite. We've already spoken of course of the small handful who are consumingly obsessed with promotion this season by whatever means. I'm also not sure how you can be confident that "we can start in just over a month". Players have been out for two months and they will need an intensive mini pre-season to get going again.

The Scottish government, infuriating though it is from a narrow footballing perspective, are going to ease lockdown very slowly and it is hard to see football resuming before schools go back (the majority after the Easter holidays). Then there has to be another gap before evaluating data before the next phase can open out - i.e. of non essential businesses opening up and the return to variable tiers across different parts of Scotland. This process will inform whether football returns at our level, something that most see as very unlikely.

They also really couldn't care less about fans being allowed back. They are visibly disinterested in the frustrations of the 8-10,000 people who watch the fixtues in Leagues 1 & 2 every week. All we get is platitudes about "we know this is tough and people are tired of these restrictions" and no detail about when returning might be possible. But OK, there are more important things for them to focus on.

Even if - and it is a big if- the epidemiological situation allows for the limited return of the league so that 18 games can be completed, the noises from the championship are that they will not accept the outcome of a half season as valid for promotion. Once again, our summer is going to be dominated by two monster trucks of self interest colliding and cancelling one another out. As Sergeant Wilson has pointed out, Falkirk would be at the front of the queue pulling the drawbridge up if you had somehow remained in the second tier.

My guess is that null & void will happen and that clubs desperate for promotion will just have to wait and start again- virus permitting- in late summer. Mumping and moaning about it won't change anything.

These are short term problems. This stoppage and shutdown will affect football at this level for many years to come. How many fans will be lost to the game because they have simply got out of the habit of going, and what will the financial consequences of that be? For how long will clubs have to play before empty stadia / restricted crowds? For how long can repeated civil wars amongst the clubs around entrenched, self-interested positions be tolerated before the competition begins to break apart? For how long can a league survive such chronically abysmal and supine management?

It may well be that by the mid-2020s football is more or less back to where it was before March last year, but the questions above have no easy answers, and without those answers, the game at this level will continue to be a wee bit troubled. In this context it really is neither here nor there whether Falkirk or Queen's Park in League Two miss out on promotion this season and garbage Brechin / Forfar sides survive at a higher level than they might otherwise have expected for another 12 months.

Edited by Ivo den Bieman

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9 minutes ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

Well the club I follow isn't in much danger of relegation. Quite the opposite. We've already spoken of course of the small handful who are consumingly obsessed with promotion this season by whatever means. I'm also not sure how you can be confident that "we can start in just over a month". Players have been out for two months and they will need an intensive mini pre-season to get going again.

The Scottish government, infuriating though it is from a narrow footballing perspective, are going to ease lockdown very slowly and it is hard to see football resuming before schools go back (the majority after the Easter holidays). Then there has to be another gap before evaluating data before the next phase can open out - i.e. of non essential businesses opening up and the return to variable tiers across different parts of Scotland. This process will inform whether football returns at our level, something that most see as very unlikely.

They also really couldn't care less about fans being allowed back. They are visibly disinterested in the frustrations of the 8-10,000 people who watch the fixtues in Leagues 1 & 2 every week. All we get is platitudes about "we know this is tough and people are tired of these restrictions" and no detail about when returning might be possible. But OK, there are more important things for them to focus on.

Even if - and it is a big if- the epidemiological situation allows for the limited return of the league so that 18 games can be completed, the noises from the championship are that they will not accept the outcome of a half season as valid for promotion. Once again, our summer is going to be dominated by two monster trucks of self interest colliding and cancelling one another out. As Sergeant Wilson has pointed out, Falkirk would be at the front of the queue pulling the drawbridge up if you had somehow remained in the second tier.

My guess is that null & void will happen and that clubs desperate for promotion will just have to wait and start again- virus permitting- in late summer. Mumping and moaning about it won't change anything.

These are short term problems. This stoppage and shutdown will affect football at this level for many years to come. How many fans will be lost to the game because they have simply got out of the habit of going, and what will the financial consequences of that be? For how long will clubs have to play before empty stadia / restricted crowds? For how long can repeated civil wars amongst the clubs around entrenched, self-interested positions be tolerated before the competition begins to break apart? For how long can a league survive such chronically abysmal and supine management?

It may well be that by the mid-2020s football is more or less back to where it was before March last year, but the questions above have no easy answers, and without those answers, the game at this level will continue to be a wee bit troubled. In this context it really is neither here nor there whether Falkirk or Queen's Park in League Two miss out on promotion this season and garbage Brechin / Forfar sides survive at a higher level than they might otherwise have expected for another 12 months.

A month is ample time to get players match fit for a return to games. 

As already mentioned, the lockdown and the suspension of Leagues 1 & 2 were not related, a surge in cases following new year is what led to the suspension. That surge is now way behind us. Absolutely no reason for the suspension to be lifted within the next month.

The restarting of League 1 has literally nothing to do with Championship clubs on the basis that it still allows for the play-offs to be completed in a timely manner. Somethign that should not be an issue if an 18 game season is adapted. 

The rest is just unrelated jargon.

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40 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


This is not an unfair argument if there is no option to null and void but that’s simply not the case here. As has been stated many times we can start in over a months time and complete the season with 18 games and play offs, so no excuse for non completion rather that the self interest of so many clubs in avoiding relegation at any cost.....

At what point does the self interest of many become the majority and fair view?

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11 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

At what point does the self interest of many become the majority and fair view?

😅😬You could justify many many actions under that logic. Not sure that’s the route you want to take haha. 

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11 minutes ago, latapythelegend said:

 

As already mentioned, the lockdown and the suspension of Leagues 1 & 2 were not related, a surge in cases following new year is what led to the suspension. That surge is now way behind us. Absolutely no reason for the suspension to be lifted within the next month

 

So far behind us that we won't see a visible release to lockdown in Scotland, until (projected) the end of April. So far behind us that the notoriously cavalier idiot running things in Westminster has been frightened into maximum caution (or, according to his scientific advisers, trigger another surge, hundreds of thousands of avoidable deaths and Lockdown 4).

Maximum caution is the only way that we might get through this. If it's inconvenient for Falkirk's championship aspirations then that's just too bad.

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At what point does the self interest of many become the majority and fair view?

You know, last season, we had Raith Rovers, Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer bleating constantly re their respective promotion and relegations, all of which got what they deserved in the end. Some of which went to court to emphasise their concerns.
The only club that were also seriously put out were ourselves, and whilst we released a statement about our concerns we accepted the situation and just got on with it.
Now this season a similar situation is arising and guess which club is going to be adversely accepted by a potential change of heart in voting on the same issues. Yet you try to ridicule any Falkirk supporter who dare question a seriously flawed process based on self interest.
Keep on bleating the same drivel for no reason other than to irritate the fans of affected clubs, but it’s not going to change my view that we would be unfairly deprived if the leagues are null and voided for unjustified reasons....

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3 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

The only club that were also seriously put out were ourselves, and whilst we released a statement about our concerns we accepted the situation and just got on with it.

:lol:

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9 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


You know, last season, we had Raith Rovers, Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer bleating constantly re their respective promotion and relegations, all of which got what they deserved in the end. Some of which went to court to emphasise their concerns.
The only club that were also seriously put out were ourselves, and whilst we released a statement about our concerns we accepted the situation and just got on with it.
Now this season a similar situation is arising and guess which club is going to be adversely accepted by a potential change of heart in voting on the same issues. Yet you try to ridicule any Falkirk supporter who dare question a seriously flawed process based on self interest.
Keep on bleating the same drivel for no reason other than to irritate the fans of affected clubs, but it’s not going to change my view that we would be unfairly deprived if the leagues are null and voided for unjustified reasons....

^^^The Pishy Tramp of Desperation continues to stink the place out, about "bleating" now.

God preserve us!

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^^^The Pishy Tramp of Desperation continues to stink the place out, about "bleating" now.
God preserve us!

Once again, resorting to insults when you have nothing of value to add.....

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default_laugh.png

Which other club was SERIOUSLY affected? Airdrie and Montrose were long shots, although they were unfairly deprived of a play off opportunity, possibly also East Fife at a push....
Look forward to your response....
IMG_0167.thumb.jpg.0ff4ee228c4c22370a0b6f7803863d75.jpg

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2 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


Which other club was SERIOUSLY affected? Airdrie and Montrose were long shots, although they were unfairly deprived of a play off opportunity, possibly also East Fife at a push....
Look forward to your response....

I was laughing at your notion that good folks of Falkirk took it on the chin and got on with things. Your chairman had a heads gone rant about how he wanted to humiliate clubs that didn't vote the way he wanted and you had fans on here not only saying they were going to boycott clubs but they'd actively try and steal live streams from them. So you can get off this moral pedestal you keep putting yourself and your club on. 

Airdrie and Montrose were long shots for the league title maybe but they had every chance in the play-offs, so to say that you were the only club affected is complete pish when there were at least 3 other clubs who could still get promoted. Who are you to determine how SERIOUS their chances were?

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15 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


Which other club was SERIOUSLY affected? Airdrie and Montrose were long shots, although they were unfairly deprived of a play off opportunity, possibly also East Fife at a push....
Look forward to your response....
IMG_0167.thumb.jpg.0ff4ee228c4c22370a0b6f7803863d75.jpg

Should have called it after 18 games when everyone had played each other the same amount of times home and away, only fair way IMO.

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I was laughing at your notion that good folks of Falkirk took it on the chin and got on with things. Your chairman had a heads gone rant about how he wanted to humiliate clubs that didn't vote the way he wanted and you had fans on here not only saying they were going to boycott clubs but they'd actively try and steal live streams from them. So you can get off this moral pedestal you keep putting yourself and your club on. 
Airdrie and Montrose were long shots for the league title maybe but they had every chance in the play-offs, so to say that you were the only club affected is complete pish when there were at least 3 other clubs who could still get promoted. Who are you to determine how SERIOUS their chances were?

Airdrie and Montrose were hardly in serious contention for the title and with a home game to play against the team above them on the final game of the season.
I clearly acknowledged the playoff teams chances in my previous post.
I don’t recollect our chairman in the media every two minutes saying one thing then voting another ala Raith, nor taking the associations to court ala Hearts and Thistle. Do you?
As for our fans. Do you SERIOUSLY expect everyone to say that’s fine, let’s get on with it when clubs continue to make it up as they go along and your club is the one impacted?
Jeez.....

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5 minutes ago, CALDERON said:

Should have called it after 18 games when everyone had played each other the same amount of times home and away, only fair way IMO.

If only the first 18 fixtures (once home and once away) were used to determine last seasons table I don't think any body would have the right to complain. 

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I don’t recollect our chairman in the media every two minutes saying one thing then voting another ala Raith, nor taking the associations to court ala Hearts and Thistle. Do you?

Our chairman voted for exactly what he said he would.

He said he will vote for permanent reconstruction. He also said he’d vote against anything else.

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All this stuff about it being unfair for Champonship clubs to wait a couple of weeks for L1 to finish, yet St Mirren have just been told there will be nearly a month between their fixtures; Mar 20 - Apr 17th

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Should have called it after 18 games when everyone had played each other the same amount of times home and away, only fair way IMO.

You know, it would have been more justified than the ppg pish they came up with. And yes, I appreciate it would not have changed matters for my club. I’d have supported that if it had been clearly stated in the rules for unexpected events and would have been difficult to argue against.
The point here though is it’s perfectly possible to come up with some preseason ground rules to avoid the self interest conversations from all sides. But they won’t, and didn’t, because self interest was again allowed to rule and @Sergeant Wilson and@The Moonster think that’s the best system that we can come up with and we shouldn’t change it.
Unbelievable.

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