Child Abuse Scandal

[Junior Pub League]

13 hours ago, superbigal said:

The report on the sfa news site. I stopped reading at page 20 odd. Nearly 300 pages. It's awful stuff.

Its 192 pages, what school did you go to where you think thats nearly 300?

[AJF]

I haven't read the report as yet but it sounds as though it is very hard-hitting and I would really like to see a meaningful response from my club.

As always, legalities will likely dictate what can and cannot be said at this time, but it's time clubs grew a conscience and dealt with this most extreme matter correctly.

[San Starko Rover]

Genuinely disgusted by the amount of fans on social media using this as whataboutery and deflection. Honestly couldn’t give a shit which club had the worst pedophiles or covered it up more than another. Every club should be supporting any victims of these monsters. In the past we didn’t have the same background checks and sadly these events were often not spoken about and swept under the carpet when discovered.

I’d like to see all clubs United in condemning these events, having an independent review into any failures or even wrongdoings and apologizing, supporting and compensating victims where appropriate.

This could have happened at any club as these type of monsters operate in the shadows, it having happened at a club isn’t what brings shame on the club, not doing the right thing to support the victims is.

[Jinky67]

49 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Genuinely disgusted by the amount of fans on social media using this as whataboutery and deflection. Honestly couldn’t give a shit which club had the worst pedophiles or covered it up more than another. Every club should be supporting any victims of these monsters. In the past we didn’t have the same background checks and sadly these events were often not spoken about and swept under the carpet when discovered.

I’d like to see all clubs United in condemning these events, having an independent review into any failures or even wrongdoings and apologizing, supporting and compensating victims where appropriate.

This could have happened at any club as these type of monsters operate in the shadows, it having happened at a club isn’t what brings shame on the club, not doing the right thing to support the victims is.

It’s a pretty sad indictment of our society when the whataboutery and desire to claim a moral victory for not being the worst offenders seem to be the thing that matters most. Doesn’t matter if it was 1 child or 100 as 1 is already too many. 

Makes your skin crawl, this is a stain on our game and we have to ensure going forward we are better and the opportunities for these sickos to gain employment or roles in our clubs just don’t exist. 

[Busta Nut]

This is a serious question

How can a club be asked to apologise for something that happened (say) 30 years ago when there may be no one at the club who was around back then?
This is obviously a horrible subject and there needs to be things done, whether that is future prevention or prosecutions of past offenders and support offered through the SFA & clubs together. 

I'm not sure an apology from a couple of guys who had nothing to do with the club at the time would be enough for any victims or if anyone in place at the clubs now would be sincere enough in the apology for it to be meaningful if it was required. 

 

But having said that, I am not sure what's best. 

 

[velo army]

I think apologies are just the start of it. As has been stated above an acknowledgement of harm has to be a part of it.

I think financial reparations need to be part of this reconciliation too. The impact of child sexual abuse (csa) on the developing adult can be profound and devastating. CSA survivors/victims often develop addictions, suffer from depression or relationship difficulties. It ruins lives, sometimes terminally. 

I know I'm whistling here, but I want all clubs to take collective responsibility for this. Nobody talked about or dealt with sexual abuse back then, and the omerta surrounding it was endemic. I don't care if we were the only club in Glasgow who were innocent of this, we need to play our part in compensating the victims of this. I'm fairly sure enough is being done now to ensure that this doesn't happen again; there are PVG checks and disclosures after all.

[TommyLeePwns]

Anyone using this subject to point score is putting their hatred for a football club over the welfare of children and that is a very sad and deprived state of mind. The obvious need for an apology is so the victims can feel they have been listened to and begin the healing process. Going decades knowing you have been brutalised while individuals or groups swan about untouched causes repeated trauma and destroys a persons ability to deal with reality. Which leads them down a very dark path of self destruction which is no fault of their own. That is why an apology is needed. 

Also, we need to take care of our kids and our sport, the best way to do this is to take the hinges off the barricaded doors to this subject and get stuck in. We need to make sure our beloved clubs are doing everything they can to protect the kids and themselves from the seedy and devious perverts who apparently are using our clubs as hosts for their filthy network of webs and sleaze. I want to know how they managed this, who organized it and how has it been able to be hushed up so long, because anyone who knows anything about conspiracies ( actual conspiracies not the tin foil wrapped shite )  know they are due to implode when they reach a certain fresh hold. The more people involved in a conspiracy the higher the chance of it falling in on itself, but around this particular subject it has been eerily quiet for a long long time. This stinks. 

We have a rare chance to do an amazing thing for the kids, the victims and society because once we've cleaned up our sport we need to then look at our own streets because as we discuss this, there are some very very strange individuals in important positions who are trying to normalize this sort of behaviour and frankly it makes my spine shiver. 

Clubs sit in a big room every year listening to refs bang on about the rules of the game etc so I don't see why they can't sit round a big table and share findings and research with each other and discuss what they have done to prevent such things taking hold within their clubs. If the powers that be are just going to publish a report then say '' aye we wrote a paper on it '' then throw it in the bin then we may as well burn the whole sport to the ground because it'll be beyond redemption at that point. 

Just my thoughts on it, I should hope we get this sorted though and not be distracted by childish synthetic tribalism. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by TommyLeePwns

[MacDonald Jardine]

This is a serious question
How can a club be asked to apologise for something that happened (say) 30 years ago when there may be no one at the club who was around back then?
This is obviously a horrible subject and there needs to be things done, whether that is future prevention or prosecutions of past offenders and support offered through the SFA & clubs together. 

I'm not sure an apology from a couple of guys who had nothing to do with the club at the time would be enough for any victims or if anyone in place at the clubs now would be sincere enough in the apology for it to be meaningful if it was required. 
 
But having said that, I am not sure what's best. 
 

Serious answer: clubs can't celebrate their history and at the same time brush aside the bad bits.

What if the Celtic board announce Lisbon 1967 was irrelevant because nobody remains from that time?

[johnnydun]

42 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

Serious answer: clubs can't celebrate their history and at the same time brush aside the bad bits.

What if the Celtic board announce Lisbon 1967 was irrelevant because nobody remains from that time?

Yes, but at the same time today's Chairpersons are not taking credit for successes of the past. So how can an apology from any of today's club Chairperson hold any weight with the victims?

[BigBo10]

Yes, but at the same time today's Chairpersons are not taking credit for successes of the past. So how can an apology from any of today's club Chairperson hold any weight with the victims?

They don’t take credit for it but they do use it at every opportunity to promote their clubs and highlight the legacy or history of the club. Therefore they should not be allowed to disregard the parts of that legacy or history that are frankly horrific.

ETA this applies to all clubs involved in this shameful episode in our game’s history.

[johnnydun]

1 minute ago, BigBo10 said:

They don’t take credit for it but they do use it at every opportunity to promote their clubs and highlight the legacy or history of the club. Therefore they should not be allowed to disregard the parts of that legacy or history that are frankly horrific.

I don't think anyone is disregarding the horrific abuse? Not apologising is not the same as disregarding.

[TonyFerrino]

28 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Yes, but at the same time today's Chairpersons are not taking credit for successes of the past. So how can an apology from any of today's club Chairperson hold any weight with the victims?

A club's custodians are only looking after it until the next generation come along, just as those before them did.  As such, I think they can speak to this in terms to of an apology in their role as the current custodians.

But, the absolute horrors that must have occurred mean an apology would surely be akin to peeing on a house fire, but perhaps just the simple act of recognition via an apology may go some very small way to helping some of those affected.  It's the least, and perhaps the only thing, clubs involved can do at this time.

Edited February 13, 2021 by TonyFerrino

[johnnydun]

3 minutes ago, TonyFerrino said:

A club's custodians are only looking after it until the next generation come along, just as those before them did.  As such, I think they can speak to this in terms to of an apology in their role as the current custodians.

But, the absolute horrors that must have occurred mean an apology would surely be akin to peeing on a house fire, but perhaps just the simple act of recognition via an apology may go some very small way to helping some of those affected.  It's the least, and perhaps the only, thing clubs involved can do at this time.

I think the clubs setting up a foundation/charity to help the victims would go further than any apology from any current stakeholders.

[TonyFerrino]

3 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

I think the clubs setting up a foundation/charity to help the victims would go further than any apology from any current stakeholders.

Too true.  That and ensuring it doesn't happen again, of course.  

[DukDukGoose]

4 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

I think the clubs setting up a foundation/charity to help the victims would go further than any apology from any current stakeholders.

True. 

Some people are asking for the bare minimum of an apology and aren't getting that though.

[GAD]

9 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

This is a serious question

How can a club be asked to apologise for something that happened (say) 30 years ago when there may be no one at the club who was around back then?
This is obviously a horrible subject and there needs to be things done, whether that is future prevention or prosecutions of past offenders and support offered through the SFA & clubs together. 

I'm not sure an apology from a couple of guys who had nothing to do with the club at the time would be enough for any victims or if anyone in place at the clubs now would be sincere enough in the apology for it to be meaningful if it was required. 

 

But having said that, I am not sure what's best. 

 

Because it's an acknowledgement that it happened. It's an admission that these events took place, no matter who is to blame. It's the same as the Australian government apologising for what they did to the aborigines, or the American government apologising to the native Americans, or the Catholic church apologising to the victims of sexual abuse that were covered up for so long. It's to show the victims that, finally, they have been heard. It doesn't matter who was in charge then or now, it's the right thing to do.

[Biscuits]

Because it's an acknowledgement that it happened. It's an admission that these events took place, no matter who is to blame. It's the same as the Australian government apologising for what they did to the aborigines, or the American government apologising to the native Americans, or the Catholic church apologising to the victims of sexual abuse that were covered up for so long. It's to show the victims that, finally, they have been heard. It doesn't matter who was in charge then or now, it's the right thing to do.

It should be acknowledged that it happened though. It actually states in the report that an apology is not an acceptance of blame.

[BigBo10]

I don't think anyone is disregarding the horrific abuse? Not apologising is not the same as disregarding.

Disregard is, on reflection, the wrong word. The point I was trying to make has been made by subsequent posts. Current stakeholders use past successes to promote how the club has succeeded and grown as a result of those successes. An apology by the current stakeholders is an acknowledgement of the failures of the past and a starting point to try and assist the victims for all they have suffered.

[AndyM]

On 13/02/2021 at 19:33, Merkland Red said:

True. 

Some people are asking for the bare minimum of an apology and aren't getting that though.

Honestly Merkland, I read the HIbs statement and if I'm being charitable I'd say it was a holding pattern statement before something more comprehensive came from the club. However I think that is it and that is utterly hopeless. It simply will not do just to say we feel sorry for the victims and look now all is well as we have Child Protection Officers involved with our boys and girls teams.

[Mr Pikey]

These monsters  used every trick in the book to get access to children in all walks of society and  football clubs weren' t immune to this.  They are not to to blame to them being there . What they are to blame for is not accepting any failings for the fear of it costing them money in compensation.   People make mistakes and do wrong ,how they make up for those mistakes is  usually the measure of that person and organisations are the same. How they try to make amends shows them up for what they are .  Some of these  club statements are , as someone on here once said ,  word salad.