VAR in Scottish league???

[Coventry Saint]

1 hour ago, HibsFan said:

Hopefully we can hold firm.

f**k the hold firm!

[Jacky1990]

Up until pretty recently i was fairly pro-VAR and just thought the implementation of it was guff.

But some of the decisions lately with people's arm hairs being offside and taking about 3 mins to see if there is the slightest foul in the build up to a goal just totally takes the fun away from watching the game, never mind being at the match itself.  VAR is getting worse rather than getting better. It's not even necessarily the referee's fault, its just the way the process is.

I dont want it anywhere near Scottish football. To be honest, it would put me off going if I knew it was being used.

As for the "aye, but rugby does it well" stuff I've heard people say. So f**k. I've never heard of a rugby fan celebrate a try and ending up 6 rows down and the next section over. Rugby doesnt have the same emotion as football. The experience of your team scoring an important goal is why we all go to games and it should be protected as such.

Give us goal line technology. Leave the rest of the tech stuff to the TV show league down south.

[G51]

The only way you could accurately use technology to judge offside is if you used tracker technology in the players boots, and the ball. That would give you an instant decision.

But that technology feels like it's many years away, and very expensive.

[Jacky1990]

6 minutes ago, G51 said:

The only way you could accurately use technology to judge offside is if you used tracker technology in the players boots, and the ball. That would give you an instant decision.

But that technology feels like it's many years away, and very expensive.

The offside application is truly mental at the moment.

If they cant tell if its offside within 30 seconds and by putting one line across the pitch as a guide, they should just give the benefit to the attacking team.

Che Adams got a goal ruled offside for Southampton mid week, took them about 3 or 4 mins with 2 or 3 different lines coming up/down from players knees, shoulders, feet, the works. I watched the whole process and couldnt for the life of me see an offside in it. Nevermind the argument that the still images they show is just a selected frame which isnt even necessarily the exact frame the ball is kicked.

As you say, the only thing to get it spot on would be tracked technology which would probably require specialist cameras all over the pitch. It is probably the road the EPL and Champions League will go down. But its simply not viable in Scotland.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Euan B said:

Hi all, 

There seems to be a lot of contrasting controversy surrounding VAR just now. In England (where VAR is in operation) VAR is under constant scrutiny, Che Adams had a perfectly good goal chopped off after being reviewed.  Whereas over the last few days in Scotland I've heard many call for it's implementation as Kemar Roofe was let off with a clear piece of dangerous play vs St Johnstone. 

Did you know, the SFA have plans to implement VAR technology in the next few years. Crawford Allan head of referee operations has stated many time he's a fan of the technology and he's been in contact with representatives of countries using VAR. Do you think it's needed in Scotland?

There is currently a piece of research being done at the University of Stirling which is going to be presented to the SFA regarding people's views of VAR in Scotland. Have your say for the SFA to review...

https://stirling.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/the-views-of-different-stakeholders-on-var-technology

Var in itself is not the problem, it's all the recent rule changes and how situations are interpreted by those reviewing the footage.

It definitely has its place for stopping / correcting basic and blatant injustices, however when we start drawing lines on top of lines similar to horse racing photo finishes then it becomes a ridiculous nuisance of a tool which just spoils football.

Over and above this, I'm convinced players are trained on how to simulate a foul / contact in the penalty box and referees should have the common sense to understand that a tap on the boot or a brush of the shoulder isn't anywhere near enough to cause a 6ft 3 professional athlete to tumble to the ground in agony.

Football has already turned into a pathetic non contact sport at the highest level and var has just made this worse, so while it does have its uses I don't think I'd want it in our leagues if we could avoid it.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

48 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

Up until pretty recently i was fairly pro-VAR and just thought the implementation of it was guff.

But some of the decisions lately with people's arm hairs being offside and taking about 3 mins to see if there is the slightest foul in the build up to a goal just totally takes the fun away from watching the game, never mind being at the match itself.  VAR is getting worse rather than getting better. It's not even necessarily the referee's fault, its just the way the process is.

I dont want it anywhere near Scottish football. To be honest, it would put me off going if I knew it was being used.

As for the "aye, but rugby does it well" stuff I've heard people say. So f**k. I've never heard of a rugby fan celebrate a try and ending up 6 rows down and the next section over. Rugby doesnt have the same emotion as football. The experience of your team scoring an important goal is why we all go to games and it should be protected as such.

Give us goal line technology. Leave the rest of the tech stuff to the TV show league down south.

Unfortunately more likely to get a form of VAR than goal line technology due to the absolutely mental cost. You need to use approved suppliers. 

It cost the Premier League clubs in England over 200k each to get installed plus 15k circa a match running costs. That was few years ago though. 

I was the same. "Why wouldn't you use technology to get the big decisions right when there's so much money at stake"

But f**k me football couldn't have made more of a mess of it if they tried. It's getting worse as well. 

[invergowrie arab]

People always look at the negatives of any system and not the benefits.

Let's not forget that under the current system getting away with one or getting a ridiculous decision in your favour is great banter.

[Mr Heliums]

I understand Celtic and Rangers are both keen on VAR.

So it seems all the more a waste of money – they get all the big decisions anyway.

[Northboy]

34 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Over and above this, I'm convinced players are trained on how to simulate a foul / contact in the penalty box and referees should have the common sense to understand that a tap on the boot or a brush of the shoulder isn't anywhere near enough to cause a 6ft 3 professional athlete to tumble to the ground in agony.

I totally agree with that - contact is not necessarily a foul.

[big al]

A cheaper and more productive use of video cameras in Scotland could be just to have a camera follow the usual suspects I.e. Allan McGregor, Scott Brown, Morellos etc. and pick up on all the ‘blind eyes’ that refs have. 

[DA Baracus]

In the words of the AI characters in Oblivion when you fail a persuade attempt on them, "Not now, not ever!".

 

f**k VAR so much.

[ArabFC]

3 hours ago, Ginaro said:

The implementation in England is no different to the implementation elsewhere, which is why you had issues with VAR and offside from a deliberate play in Germany and the same tight offside decisions in France this week.

Most goals are celebrated normally, the only ones where you might not celebrate is if there close offside or possible foul in the build up. But you also get the added bonus of celebrating a goal which was ruled out by the referee or their assistant.

The absolute worst part of football is when your team loses a goal which should not have been awarded, which is the other side of that situation. And it's not as if referees and assistants can't already detract from the experience of celebrating if they rule a goal out.

Do you not think the experience of St Johnstone fans would've been improved had VAR been in place to recommend a red card against Roofe?

This was a game to qualify for a major tournament, the exact scenario which prompted calls for VAR (Henry's handball v Ireland) and where you want fairness and the laws enforced correctly.

Just imagine if there was no VAR and Serbia's goalkeeper had no feet on the line to save the decisive penalty, and everyone at home could see it should have been retaken - but the referee blows the final whistle. As it was, it took a few seconds to check the save and it meant there could be no debate or crying from Serbia about the save.

Your approach to life offends me.

Edited February 5, 2021 by ArabFC

[ArabFC]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

Var in itself is not the problem, it's all the recent rule changes and how situations are interpreted by those reviewing the footage.

It definitely has its place for stopping / correcting basic and blatant injustices, however when we start drawing lines on top of lines similar to horse racing photo finishes then it becomes a ridiculous nuisance of a tool which just spoils football.

Over and above this, I'm convinced players are trained on how to simulate a foul / contact in the penalty box and referees should have the common sense to understand that a tap on the boot or a brush of the shoulder isn't anywhere near enough to cause a 6ft 3 professional athlete to tumble to the ground in agony.

Football has already turned into a pathetic non contact sport at the highest level and var has just made this worse, so while it does have its uses I don't think I'd want it in our leagues if we could avoid it.

Of course it is the problem.

Once you accept the use of technology to make decisions, that's the ballgame.

Folk can argue about the best application, but once you take the step you can't avoid the path toward the lowest common denominator of getting the decision right above all else.

[tamthebam]

I don't think it would ever be used in an Edinburgh City match as we're pondlife but imagine this VAR lite is like the intelligent video camera various clubs have been using this season

"A plastic bag has blown onto the pitch and the VAR has given a penalty to City..."

I've always said a game with a ball and a video ref is f*cking rugby so VAR can get in the sea.

[HibsFan]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

Var in itself is not the problem, it's all the recent rule changes and how situations are interpreted by those reviewing the footage.

It definitely has its place for stopping / correcting basic and blatant injustices, however when we start drawing lines on top of lines similar to horse racing photo finishes then it becomes a ridiculous nuisance of a tool which just spoils football.

Over and above this, I'm convinced players are trained on how to simulate a foul / contact in the penalty box and referees should have the common sense to understand that a tap on the boot or a brush of the shoulder isn't anywhere near enough to cause a 6ft 3 professional athlete to tumble to the ground in agony.

Football has already turned into a pathetic non contact sport at the highest level and var has just made this worse, so while it does have its uses I don't think I'd want it in our leagues if we could avoid it.

Who determines what's blatant and basic? Where does it end? I'd rather run the risk of blatant injustices carrying on every so often (while training our officials to spot them wherever possible) than open that can of worms.

[HibsFan]

2 hours ago, G51 said:

The only way you could accurately use technology to judge offside is if you used tracker technology in the players boots, and the ball. That would give you an instant decision.

But that technology feels like it's many years away, and very expensive.

That would still need to take into account the nuances of when a phase ends, if a defender deliberately plays the ball etc.

The offside rule was not written with the intention of examining forwards microscopically to see if they're a toenail past the last defender.

It was introduced to stop fat waddling Victorian strikers scoring fifty a season by leaning on the post.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Who determines what's blatant and basic? Where does it end? I'd rather run the risk of blatant injustices carrying on every so often (while training our officials to spot them wherever possible) than open that can of worms.

I remember a Partick v Dundee Utd match back in the early 90's when Paddy Connolly (I think) scored and the ball hit off the stanchion in the back of the goal, bounced out, CH then picked the ball up and booted it up to the Centre circle, unbelievably no goal nor indeed penalty were given and game continued as normal. I think it may have been Brian McGinley who was refereeing, however this type of thing I can see the point of VAR but of course a fool proof goal line technology system would also be just as good.

As you say though, things like that (while annoying at the time for those involved) also provide a talking point and stick in the memory for years to come, so maybe you're right, maybe football as it is should just be left alone as refereeing screw ups and the perception of biased decisions are just part and parcel of a game that we all love.

[Loonytoons]

4 hours ago, ArabFC said:

But that's the whole problem, you can't!

If you introduce technology, it becomes binary, there's no room to favour - he's either offside or not.

Well that's just not true, I've seen plenty on MOTD that I'm scratching my head at thinking how do they know exactly where his shoulder is under his loose fitting shirt or when do they actually know when the last contact of foot and ball was.

This sums it up fairly well.

https://medium.com/hive-it/fixing-offside-and-var-using-design-299d62b78c57

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

VAR should be in the bin.

Not even bothered about goal line technology. It would be used a few times per season and one the few times it was needed in England it was shown not to be up to the task.

[tamthebam]

2 hours ago, WATTOO said:

I remember a Partick v Dundee Utd match back in the early 90's when Paddy Connolly (I think) scored and the ball hit off the stanchion in the back of the goal, bounced out, CH then picked the ball up and booted it up to the Centre circle, unbelievably no goal nor indeed penalty were given and game continued as normal. I think it may have been Brian McGinley who was refereeing, 

 

The solution to that one was just to introduce what used to be "European style" deep goalnets. Of course fancy electronic technology wasn't so widespread in the 90s so a couple of additional poles and rope to hold up the net was used instead 

(Still didn't stop a few years later Spartans' goalie Kevin Brown clawing the ball out from six feet behind the line to deny Edinburgh City a goal but there would have been no VAR at that game either)