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Euan B

VAR in Scottish league???

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9 minutes ago, G51 said:

The absolute best part of football is celebrating when your team scores.

Why would anyone want to introduce something that detracts from that experience?

Think this is spot on, there's not as much passion in English football, so they overlook it. Flashbacks to when David Marshall just about gave me a heart attack not celebrating the penalty save vs Serbia...

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I don't watch English football and didn't notice the VAR in the Scotland game until the last penalty. So i have some questions. 

How does it work? Does a team need to challenge decisions etc? 

What kit does it require? Is it just cameras or does it need proprietary hawkeye type things. 

How successful is it in making sure decisions are correct? 

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Look away now Partick fans.

Below is probably the craziest moment ever seen in the now Eddie Thompson stand - limbs flying everywhere!

Can you imagine it in the VAR era - folk looking nervously at each other. Was he offside? Did it come off Pressley's hand?

 

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VAR is a horrible idea everywhere, but particularly in Scotland. Let's face it, the supporters of 10 out of 12 top flight clubs every season are filled with fans who tend to be emotionally robust and/or mentally mature enough to recognise that refereeing mistakes happen, they might moan a bit about it, but they fundamentally get on with their lives.

Funnily enough, there are two sets of fans who are convinced that they are victims of refereeing conspiracies, so they want to surrender the unmatched feeling of a goal going in over to some shitey magic box that doesn't even make 100% accurate decisions because football isn't a game of scientific perfection

When Sportswashing Albion are taking on Slaveholders Rovers in the EPL and there's millions on the line (plus they've long since given up pretending to care about the match-going fan), I can understand the logic even if I hate it.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, outside of the few thousand in attendance is bothered whether David Wotherspoon's toe is offside in the equalising goal of a drab 1-1 draw against Kilmarnock. So the idea is to completely ruin the Scottish fans in the grounds' experience because some obese, Sky Sports watching Gers c**t in Elgin can't cope with a goal being marginally offside? f**k that.

It will be a very sad day if/when it's introduced. Hopefully we can hold firm.

Edited by HibsFan

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Just to add, even if they could somehow get VAR to a point where it was 100% accurate (and it's important to stress that they can't do that, there's too much subjectivity in football as a sport), I wouldn't want it. The reason we spend hundreds, if not thousands, on football each year is for that rush of a goal going in. Take that away and what are you left with?

I would rather see Hibs fucked over by truly outrageous refereeing decisions, the sort where you're expecting the official to rip off the black shirt and reveal a Hearts top underneath, over waiting around for two minutes while someone somewhere draws lines on a screen to determine whether it's a goal or not.

Scrap VAR, keep goalline technology. Move on with our lives.

This is all the logical conclusion of "punditry" needing to fill the time during and after games, so probably bin those c***s too for good measure.

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15 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

VAR is horrible and needs to get in the sea. If it actually stuck to its remit to correct clear and obvious errors then fine, but the implementation in England is utterly killing football.

The whole point of the game is that you can go absolutely mental when your team scores. Take that away - because you're waiting for confirmation from VAR - and the immediacy completely disappears.

The prawn sandwich munchers on this side of the border might not care because they barely celebrate goals anyway, but the idea of tempering my celebrations because there's a chance it's getting chalked off by some c**t not even in the ground makes me feel pretty hollow, tbh.

The implementation in England is no different to the implementation elsewhere, which is why you had issues with VAR and offside from a deliberate play in Germany and the same tight offside decisions in France this week.

Most goals are celebrated normally, the only ones where you might not celebrate is if there close offside or possible foul in the build up. But you also get the added bonus of celebrating a goal which was ruled out by the referee or their assistant.

12 minutes ago, G51 said:

The absolute best part of football is celebrating when your team scores.

Why would anyone want to introduce something that detracts from that experience?

The absolute worst part of football is when your team loses a goal which should not have been awarded, which is the other side of that situation. And it's not as if referees and assistants can't already detract from the experience of celebrating if they rule a goal out.

Do you not think the experience of St Johnstone fans would've been improved had VAR been in place to recommend a red card against Roofe?

8 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I agree there it wont be totally ironed but at least a few less creases. And for me when unsure I would always favour the attacker

I must admit this kind of does boil my piss a bit. Even when Marshall saved THAT penalty looking about for VAR intervention it kind of takes a gloss off total euphoria. 

1 minute ago, Euan B said:

Think this is spot on, there's not as much passion in English football, so they overlook it. Flashbacks to when David Marshall just about gave me a heart attack not celebrating the penalty save vs Serbia...

This was a game to qualify for a major tournament, the exact scenario which prompted calls for VAR (Henry's handball v Ireland) and where you want fairness and the laws enforced correctly.

Just imagine if there was no VAR and Serbia's goalkeeper had no feet on the line to save the decisive penalty, and everyone at home could see it should have been retaken - but the referee blows the final whistle. As it was, it took a few seconds to check the save and it meant there could be no debate or crying from Serbia about the save.

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Just now, Ginaro said:

The implementation in England is no different to the implementation elsewhere, which is why you had issues with VAR and offside from a deliberate play in Germany and the same tight offside decisions in France this week.

Most goals are celebrated normally, the only ones where you might not celebrate is if there close offside or possible foul in the build up. But you also get the added bonus of celebrating a goal which was ruled out by the referee or their assistant.

The absolute worst part of football is when your team loses a goal which should not have been awarded, which is the other side of that situation. And it's not as if referees and assistants can't already detract from the experience of celebrating if they rule a goal out.


You've basically pointed out that VAR is universally terrible before going on to try to launch a defence of it.

When I'm watching a game with VAR, I'm worried about literally every single goal that goes in. Maybe there was a wee tug on the shirt 50 yards up the pitch, maybe the ball bounced up off someone's hand, maybe there was a player whose toenail was 0.00003mm offside in the build-up. I don't have any goal counted until the game kicks off again, apart from goals from penalties and direct free-kicks. You don't get the added bonus of celebrating goals that were ruled out either, because in all of those occasions play is allowed to continue until after the ball is in the net.

Currently in normal football when a referee or assistant rule a goal out, it is instantaneous. In fact, most of the decisions are given before the ball even goes in. All you need is a quick glance at the ref and the linesman and you're good to go. In VARball, you can be left waiting a minute or two before they decide that the ball skiffed off a player's elbow on the way into the box and therefore the goal can't be given.

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6 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Just imagine if there was no VAR and Serbia's goalkeeper had no feet on the line to save the decisive penalty, and everyone at home could see it should have been retaken - but the referee blows the final whistle. As it was, it took a few seconds to check the save and it meant there could be no debate or crying from Serbia about the save.

People who complain about stuff like the goalkeeper being an inch ahead of his line at a penalty are the sort of nonces who want VAR in the first place.

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14 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Just imagine if there was no VAR and Serbia's goalkeeper had no feet on the line to save the decisive penalty, and everyone at home could see it should have been retaken - but the referee blows the final whistle. As it was, it took a few seconds to check the save and it meant there could be no debate or crying from Serbia about the save.

Oh no! He would've been slightly off his line! How could I have lived?

Spoiler

Quite fucking easily. :lol:

You can also have someone checking on that specific issue during a penalty shootout without introducing VAR into the game. A penalty shootout is different from a normal game of football, there are natural breaks after each piece of action. It's why DRS works in cricket and Hawkeye works in tennis.

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27 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

VAR is a horrible idea everywhere, but particularly in Scotland. Let's face it, the supporters of 10 out of 12 top flight clubs every season are filled with fans who tend to be emotionally robust and/or mentally mature enough to recognise that refereeing mistakes happen, they might moan a bit about it, but they fundamentally get on with their lives.

Funnily enough, there are two sets of fans who are convinced that they are victims of refereeing conspiracies, so they want to surrender the unmatched feeling of a goal going in over to some shitey magic box that doesn't even make 100% accurate decisions because football isn't a game of scientific perfection

When Sportswashing Albion are taking on Slaveholders Rovers in the EPL and there's millions on the line (plus they've long since given up pretending to care about the match-going fan), I can understand the logic even if I hate it.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, outside of the few thousand in attendance is bothered whether David Wotherspoon's toe is offside in the equalising goal of a drab 1-1 draw against Kilmarnock. So the idea is to completely ruin the Scottish fans in the grounds' experience because some obese, Sky Sports watching Gers c**t in Elgin can't cope with a goal being marginally offside? f**k that.

It will be a very sad day if/when it's introduced. Hopefully we can hold firm.

I'm not sure where you've carried out your opinion poll, but I can say for myself and the supporters bus I go on, it's pretty unanimous that none of us would like to see VAR introduced in Scotland.

We've had experience of it at Ibrox, it was used in the Europa League knockout rounds last season and it wasn't enjoyable at all.

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9 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

People who complain about stuff like the goalkeeper being an inch ahead of his line at a penalty are the sort of nonces who want VAR in the first place.

Yup. I will happily choose this as my hill to die on: people who think VAR has been a good introduction to football never really liked the game anyway.

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1 minute ago, AJF said:

I'm not sure where you've carried out your opinion poll, but I can say for myself and the supporters bus I go on, it's pretty unanimous that none of us would like to see VAR introduced in Scotland.

We've had experience of it at Ibrox, it was used in the Europa League knockout rounds last season and it wasn't enjoyable at all.

Match-attending bears and bhoys might be an exemption, but when Rangers released a statement after beating Celtic last season calling for VAR, it had near unanimous support from the fans from what I remember.

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2 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Match-attending bears and bhoys might be an exemption, but when Rangers released a statement after beating Celtic last season calling for VAR, it had near unanimous support from the fans from what I remember.

Aye, I remember that to be fair. I think most fans lapped it up after a complete horror show that day by Clancy so it was seen as the club 'fighting back' so to speak, but I think if you asked them outwith the immediate aftermath of a derby that had numerous controversial decisions, then the majority would be against VAR. Simply my opinion based on my own thoughts and those who I go to matches with.

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55 minutes ago, Menga Bus said:

We need goal line technology, but I’d pass on VAR

This.

 

In Theory VAR sounds great, in practical use it has been a total clusterfuck and wasting the game. Big decisions are still being called on how someone interprets them, so VAR hasn't made anything better there, it has just made it worse, having to stop the game while we wait on a person's decision on how they see it. Also examining every goal for an infringement beforehand, total mood killer sucking the life out of players and fans not being able to enjoy a goal celebration.

 

If you could limit it to just examining contentious incidents the officials aren't clear about, leaving it to the official in charge to call for a VAR review, then reviewing it himself, but i fear once you go down the VAR rabbit hole, you wont be able to stop it being used for everything, and the game will end up an emotionless sanitized borefest.

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30 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Scrap VAR, keep goalline technology. Move on with our lives.

A good opinion, IMO. Goal-line decisions are binary, it's either over or it isn't, so that's fine.

Also IMO, English football is a broadcast product. Scottish football is a live event. If VAR is shite in a broadcast product, it'll be fucking appalling at a live event. 

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VAR would be a disaster for Rangers and Celtic.  Would probably cost them 10-15 points a season.

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5 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

A good opinion, IMO. Goal-line decisions are binary, it's either over or it isn't, so that's fine.

Also IMO, English football is a broadcast product. Scottish football is a live event. If VAR is shite in a broadcast product, it'll be fucking appalling at a live event. 

I think the pandemic has accelerated VAR's purpose down in England in that regard, except they've spent the year not perfecting it in any way, shape or form. :lol:

As you say, Scottish football (once they let the fans back in) is a live event. Waiting two seconds to see if the referee's watch has said a ball's crossed the line is one thing, but standing around for two minutes in a Livingston - Hamilton game? f**k that. Whose benefit is that actually for?

4 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

VAR would be a disaster for Rangers and Celtic.  Would probably cost them 10-15 points a season.

The very same people you're alleging in some way contribute to an extra 10-15 Old Firm points a season would be the ones in charge of VAR, a highly subjective use of technology. Why on earth do you think anything would change?

Edited by HibsFan

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VAR, but only for the OF as we know they are the only teams that cheat.

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