New clubs in the West of Scotland

[.Stuart.]

Rossvale senior team have no purpose now. Who do they exist for? No connection to the youth set up or Bishopbriggs.

.

[Sergeant Wilson]

8 hours ago, theesel1994 said:

Now we've got Rossvale arguing with The Rossvale on Twitter. This will be fun if they draw each other in one of the cups.

I don't  think the police should cancel all leave just yet.

[Hillonearth]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Usually the senior team is expected to be financially self-supporting to avoid that criticism. That ultimately leads to the BSC and Rossvale scenario once it becomes clear that few if any players are coming through from the youth teams so the two groups decouple from each other.

I'd mentioned this scenario a while back - it's naive of any club to join a semi-pro setup and think it'll provide a pathway into adult football for anything like entire groups of players...in any age-group side you'll be lucky to get a handful capable of stepping up in any given year.

Then the ambition of the senior team's management and committee come into play - very few will want to be hamstrung by the inevitably limited resources feeding through the "pathway" and will sign more and more players with no prior connection with the organisation until it disappears altogether.

When that happens it's difficult to see what purpose or indeed future the senior club that now has no ties to the parent organisation that it was ostensibly set up to sevice has....Broomhill appear to have thrown a bit of a Hail Mary by hitching themselves to a website, but the club soon not to be called Rossvale? Who knows - shorn of their previous identity and with no defined home patch and minimal support they're essentially down to being a bag of balls and a hamper full of strips.

[FairWeatherFan]

There's a difference between the rebooted Rossvale & BSC Glasgow. They're all the way down in the 10th Tier. There's no short term fix that will catapult them to a significantly higher level.

They actual clubs seem to be controlling the teams or at least have closer ties than the relationship that existed between Lowland BSC Glasgow & Rossvale Juniors.

They're starting with roots within their community. BSC Glasgow have taken over Peterson Park and it's the club not the team that has control over it, as it is intended to be for multiple teams. Don't know if Rossvale are using Huntershill but it seems like they're starting in Bishopbriggs. If the men's teams tried to breakaway they'd probably find themselves homeless.

Player pathway is perhaps overblown but they'll be thinking Development League/WoSFL. Not just packing the first team with "homegrown" players.

I'd be more concerned that the seem the type of clubs that would embrace 2nd XIs in the pyramid if the first teams ever reached WoS Premier or higher. Rather than a breakaway or split.

[Greenmachine]

13 hours ago, KRayr said:

It's the bold franco a strange weird individual which shows in the utterly bizarre diet Rossvale 2011 twitter account.  Himself and the ego chairman scrambling about trying to keep this charade going is comedy gold. 

He's even trying to cosy up to fellow weirdo 'mozza'

 

Petershill must be like please just die Rossvale 2011 and leave our ground forever. 

 

Question is what will the new name be. 

Maybe they will try Springburn Europa Fc 

 

 

It’s not Petershills ground though.

Its run by the Patrick Thistle academy now.Petershill are tennants just the same as Rossvale.

[Arthurlie1981]

14 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I'd mentioned this scenario a while back - it's naive of any club to join a semi-pro setup and think it'll provide a pathway into adult football for anything like entire groups of players...in any age-group side you'll be lucky to get a handful capable of stepping up in any given year.

Then the ambition of the senior team's management and committee come into play - very few will want to be hamstrung by the inevitably limited resources feeding through the "pathway" and will sign more and more players with no prior connection with the organisation until it disappears altogether.

When that happens it's difficult to see what purpose or indeed future the senior club that now has no ties to the parent organisation that it was ostensibly set up to sevice has....Broomhill appear to have thrown a bit of a Hail Mary by hitching themselves to a website, but the club soon not to be called Rossvale? Who knows - shorn of their previous identity and with no defined home patch and minimal support they're essentially down to being a bag of balls and a hamper full of strips.

I agree with what you are saying here but the Rossvale problems seem to go further than just having players coming through to the first team from the academy. It looks like the deal (which subsequently failed) with Europa FC without discussing it with the academy. Also they emailed all the development clubs in the lowland league asking for players to attend a trial which could lead to a contract with either club but charging players to attend. This would annoy not only their own academy but also other clubs in the area. 

 

They tried something which has back fired on them and they now have to live with the consequences.

[GNU_Linux]

Applications now being accepted from prospective clubs. Deadline is March 31st.

[LongTimeLurker]

Will be interesting to see if any more SoS clubs decide to follow Threave.

[edinabear]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Will be interesting to see if any more SoS clubs decide to follow Threave.

Probably will see a gradual merger of SofS with WofS.

Presumably there's not many places available? Maybe 4 if the 4th division goes to 16.

[Yalay]

1 hour ago, edinabear said:

Presumably there's not many places available? Maybe 4 if the 4th division goes to 16.

Don’t forget that the Third Division is reducing from 19 to 16 clubs for next season. That leaves just one spot in the Fourth, subject to changes via promotion and relegation with the Lowland League.

Of course there is no rule saying the league can’t go beyond 16 clubs in the Fourth Division, or even add a Fifth Division. At the start of this season there was a proposal to cap the league at 80 clubs (it currently has 79). I believe that proposal was never put to a vote, but we shall see what happens in the coming offseason.

Personally I would like to see the league institute a cap, and then create some sort of playoff agreement with the local amateur leagues.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

8 hours ago, Yalay said:

Don’t forget that the Third Division is reducing from 19 to 16 clubs for next season. That leaves just one spot in the Fourth, subject to changes via promotion and relegation with the Lowland League.

Of course there is no rule saying the league can’t go beyond 16 clubs in the Fourth Division, or even add a Fifth Division. At the start of this season there was a proposal to cap the league at 80 clubs (it currently has 79). I believe that proposal was never put to a vote, but we shall see what happens in the coming offseason.

Personally I would like to see the league institute a cap, and then create some sort of playoff agreement with the local amateur leagues.

I feel uneasy about this preferred rule. Capping new teams from joining.  Its sounds similar to the Lowland league and SPFL2 clubs stopping teams below from progressing by each club voting.   I think any team should be allowed to apply to join not just the WOSFL but the EOSFL and the SOSFL but must be within their area boundaries and the clubs must fall into the league governing rules of condition, i.e. They own their own park, They have a U20s team with certain infrastructure sorted.  Rules of entry I suppose can be worked.

As I said I feel uneasy that we are doing to amateur clubs etc.. what the SPFL2 and Lowland are doing below their leagues, its similar.   Yeah Yalay agree no rule to say fourth can go bigger or even a fifth league starting but I can't see there being enough for  a fifth league. Also what's the script with teams that withdrew like Annbank United, if they decided to come back, are they welcomed back or will they be left out if the last place was taken

[Dev]

I guess if Glasgow Wellington amateurs can head South then others could follow?

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^this is what that's all about:

https://www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forums/index.php?threads/glasgow-wellington-to-join-south-of-scotland-league.8910/#post-180681

[Kennie]

3 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I feel uneasy about this preferred rule. Capping new teams from joining.  Its sounds similar to the Lowland league and SPFL2 clubs stopping teams below from progressing by each club voting.   I think any team should be allowed to apply to join not just the WOSFL but the EOSFL and the SOSFL but must be within their area boundaries and the clubs must fall into the league governing rules of condition, i.e. They own their own park, They have a U20s team with certain infrastructure sorted.  Rules of entry I suppose can be worked.

As I said I feel uneasy that we are doing to amateur clubs etc.. what the SPFL2 and Lowland are doing below their leagues, its similar.   Yeah Yalay agree no rule to say fourth can go bigger or even a fifth league starting but I can't see there being enough for  a fifth league. Also what's the script with teams that withdrew like Annbank United, if they decided to come back, are they welcomed back or will they be left out if the last place was taken

80 teams gives us 5 Divisions of 16, which is ideal from our point of view. Personally, I'd be wary of increasing Division 4 by any more than 2 and taking it to 18. So the problem would be - How do you accommodate more teams? What do we do with 20, 21, 22 or more?

The other problem would lie with referees, would there be enough?

[LongTimeLurker]

Conferences is the way the EoS handled that. For example, 24 clubs would mean two conferences of 12. Play home and away inside conference for 22 games plus 12 against the other conference for 34 in total. A playoff can be used to determine the overall champion and promotion issues.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

4 hours ago, Kennie said:

80 teams gives us 5 Divisions of 16, which is ideal from our point of view. Personally, I'd be wary of increasing Division 4 by any more than 2 and taking it to 18. So the problem would be - How do you accommodate more teams? What do we do with 20, 21, 22 or more?

The other problem would lie with referees, would there be enough?

Kennie, I agree with you, there are tons of implications.

My point is that you know the shit of the SPFL2 voting for no relegation and its only a playoff is a mere token gesture and the Lowland League voting for one down, so the clubs have voted to restrict movement into their leagues and this is similar to what the WOSFL are doing, stopping potential teams growing from where their clubs are at the moment, i.e. amateur status or youth clubs previously. These teams may want to grow but now we are restricting this from happening.  Obviously, referees, infrastructure, location, districts league, more fixtures to arrange make it harder and make decisions go one way or the other etc..

Look at Threave going to Campbeltown which is 4 and half hours drive here or there and that cant be conducive benefit for either team. In regards to divisions, For example, if there was enough teams applying to join and are suitable then you possibly have a division 4a and division 4b going by district or as stated above, Conferences, I'm sure there are many other ides but then refereeing needs looked at and the cups and as you rightly know, the lower down the league the team, then more chance of being out of cups giving them only league games so their season could be finished early for the lowest divisions.

The SPFL2 and the Lowland League voted for the way it currently is with consideration of all reasoning, what benefits / negatives if they didn't do it this way, what benefits / negatives if they do it this way so that's why they all voted the way they all voted, self benefit.  But everyone at tier 6 and below just think the teams are shitting it and stopping promotion because they know in tier 6 there's a lot of teams good enough to go up with many of them down. Lowland say they voted that way because the SPFL are stopping proper promotion into their league so the Lowland are not going to have 3 relegated when no one can get promoted to the SPFL2.

Its not horrendous if no new clubs join or not allowed to join the WOSFL, I'm merely stating that what we are doing is similar what SPFL2 and Lowland have done before and are doing.  Even if new clubs did apply, there must be certain criteria laid down that the clubs must have or are implementing to be able to play within the WOSFL, which I'm sure is already written up

Edited January 10, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[LongTimeLurker]

Maybe a good way to think about this is do you really want to ever have to tell people who want to resurrect a club with a bit of history like Annbank United, Baillieston or Blantyre Celtic that they can't get in because the league is full up after the powers that be allowed duplicate Rossvales and BSC Glasgows into senior football?

[Yalay]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Maybe a good way to think about this is do you really want to ever have to tell people who want to resurrect a club with a bit of history like Annbank United, Baillieston or Blantyre Celtic that they can't get in because the league is full up after the powers that be allowed duplicate Rossvales and BSC Glasgows into senior football?

That’s why the league should establish a promotion/relegation agreement with the local amateur leagues. Annbank United could reform as an amateur club and work its way up.

[Pollok mad]

1 minute ago, Yalay said:

That’s why the league should establish a promotion/relegation agreement with the local amateur leagues. Annbank United could reform as an amateur club and work its way up.

Amateur leagues in the West are way too segmented to have any hope of joining the pyramid any time soon. Caley teams only a couple weeks ago unanimously voted against a merger with the Central Scottish

Edited January 10, 2023 by Pollok mad

[zenon]

6 minutes ago, Yalay said:

That’s why the league should establish a promotion/relegation agreement with the local amateur leagues. Annbank United could reform as an amateur club and work its way up.

They could compromise and have an election system like they used to do in England. Bottom three of D4 would have to reapply alongside any amateur/youth applicants. Three clubs with the most votes would take their place in D4 the following season.