New clubs in the West of Scotland

[Pollok mad]

50 minutes ago, Spyro said:

I think the main problem with Pollok was the Entry/Exit situation. There’s only 2 wee holes in the wall for the turnstiles at the opposite end of the ground from the main terracing with little space to move behind the goals towards said exit… so in an emergency, it’s going to be a bit tight. I do agree that 900 is a bit low but I can see why after seeing the ground with 700odd inside

There is far larger exits near the pie hut on the same side at the enclosure  and behind the goal. I think no split turnstiles was some of the problem but I know a lot of it was how steep the terracing is without any crush barrier, so the council only counts a certain number of rows as safe because any more would be a crush risk

[Hampden Diehard]

55 minutes ago, Spyro said:

I think the main problem with Pollok was the Entry/Exit situation. There’s only 2 wee holes in the wall for the turnstiles at the opposite end of the ground from the main terracing with little space to move behind the goals towards said exit… so in an emergency, it’s going to be a bit tight. I do agree that 900 is a bit low but I can see why after seeing the ground with 700odd inside

I love going down to Pollok when my "big team" aren't playing, but there a few things that they could and should have done, especially when they were getting terrific crowds. Toilets were embarrassing until a couple of years ago although better now; no barriers for what is quite a big terracing; the access / exit situation. They have lights now, which is great, but there's not been much in the way of improvements over the years.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Yes you can, in general most of the non terraced sports centre type grounds are awful for all fans but even worse for disabled supporters, Bonnyton il grant you is alright but they are an exception rather than a rule. Clubs shouldnt be admitted at any level without reasonable viewing area for disabled spectators.

A massively begrudging ok for Bonnyton and you are just going to ignore any traditional clubs as it doesnt suit your agenda. 

Good balanced discussion there.

[santheman]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Yes you can, in general most of the non terraced sports centre type grounds are awful for all fans but even worse for disabled supporters, Bonnyton il grant you is alright but they are an exception rather than a rule. Clubs shouldnt be admitted at any level without reasonable viewing area for disabled spectators.

As someone who takes a wheelchair user to grounds (and we have been at most WOSL and former Junior grounds) I find the biggest bugbear is the barriers round the Park always seem to be at eye level for the wheelchair user, particularly in the cages

Ive also Lost count of the number of times I've had to take him behind a container or between 2 cars for a piss.

Some of the grounds really are in the dark ages.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, HorseyGhirl said:

A massively begrudging ok for Bonnyton and you are just going to ignore any traditional clubs as it doesnt suit your agenda. 

Good balanced discussion there.

What agenda is it im alleged to have here? Get a grip. Its hard to follow your posts at a million miles an hour to even form an agenda. All i know is in terms of accessibility any of the clubs in the premier this season that we visited were ok, im not sure how Cumbernauld is just now and Largs isnt great in terms of cover, but most grounds are fine in the premier. If i want to form an opinion on the cage type set ups i absolutely will based on what ive experienced. Yes bonnyton is ‘ok’ what do you want me to say? Its the best place ive ever seen a football match from or something? Its ok because you can access one of the sides alright but you cant get up to the refreshments etc with any relative ease, so its ok. Ok is alright. 
The only agenda i have is wanting clubs to be accessible to all. I have my own criticisms of even my own clubs facilities, ie lack off access to the hospitality area etc. 

Massive lol’z at me of all people being accused of sticking up for the junior ‘traditional’ clubs. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Inanimate Carbon Rod

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

As someone who takes a wheelchair user to grounds (and we have been at most WOSL and former Junior grounds) I find the biggest bugbear is the barriers round the Park always seem to be at eye level for the wheelchair user, particularly in the cages

Ive also Lost count of the number of times I've had to take him behind a container or between 2 cars for a piss.

Some of the grounds really are in the dark ages.

Toilet facilities maybe take a bit more effort(note not a lot). But the barrier issue realty wouldn’t take much effort at all,  you could create a disabled area for 10 people say with a lowered pitch side barrier that is separated to prevent able bodied fans standing at it in an afternoon for less than the price of bibs and a handful of volunteers.

Its far from the perfect and I certainly think at least at spfl raised platforms should be minimum which would effect about 90% of clubs but at the smaller tier 6 grounds and below it should be ok, at least in comparison to the facilities available for others.

Licensing already requires a dedicated area for clubs going for that. 

On polok I think from my understanding it’s the lack of crush barriers that are the issue.  I have heard they have been quoted some insane figures for installing them but given they have been required at senior grounds since Jesus was a bairn they really have no excuse for this and other fundamental basics liked marked gangways not being in place from install. 

Clubs can build as big as grounds as they want, but if your not going to furfill the requirements expect restricted capacities.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, santheman said:

As someone who takes a wheelchair user to grounds (and we have been at most WOSL and former Junior grounds) I find the biggest bugbear is the barriers round the Park always seem to be at eye level for the wheelchair user, particularly in the cages

Ive also Lost count of the number of times I've had to take him behind a container or between 2 cars for a piss.

Some of the grounds really are in the dark ages.

I hope you bring these issues to the club you are visiting. It's the only way to highlight them at any club.

I am in no way a defender of the cages some are bloody awful, some are just bad, some get by, some are ok. But they are here to stay for a while at least. We have to learn to live with them. Yes improve facilities don't just dismiss because we don't like them in principal.

The point I am continually trying to make is that there are traditional grounds that have issues for able and non abled fans attending. Just trying to have a balanced discussion about it. 

[Kenny*******Powers]

Its been a bugbear of mine for years when I’ve went to Junior now WoS grounds the lack of money invested in grounds when some clubs literally threw thousands at player budgets for very little return. Most didn’t care about fan experience until the incentive of playing in the BIG SCOTTISH, now they all want a licence when money could’ve been invested over the years to keep grounds at a decent standard. Pollok is a great example of a club who have had one of the best budgets for years but couldn’t even sort a decent toilet out, now it’s biting them on the arse with a reduced capacity 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

What agenda is it im alleged to have here? Get a grip. Its hard to follow your posts at a million miles an hour to even form an agenda. All i know is in terms of accessibility any of the clubs in the premier this season that we visited were ok, im not sure how Cumbernauld is just now and Largs isnt great in terms of cover, but most grounds are fine in the premier. If i want to form an opinion on the cage type set ups i absolutely will based on what ive experienced. Yes bonnyton is ‘ok’ what do you want me to say? Its the best place ive ever seen a football match from or something? Its ok because you can access one of the sides alright but you cant get up to the refreshments etc with any relative ease, so its ok. Ok is alright. 
The only agenda i have is wanting clubs to be accessible to all. I have my own criticisms of even my own clubs facilities, ie lack off access to the hospitality area etc. 

Massive lol’z at me of all people being accused of sticking up for the junior ‘traditional’ clubs. 

You don't have to tell me I talk shit constantly. As for any agenda; it's just to enjoy being a normal fan and enjoy talking about it wherever I can.

To be honest I would expect premier grounds to have better facilities and like @Arthurlie1981 has stated at that level they should be. 

Never expected you to praise Bonnyton from the rooftops but they do have an SFA licence so they must be doing something correctly.

 

[santheman]

1 hour ago, HorseyGhirl said:

I hope you bring these issues to the club you are visiting. It's the only way to highlight them at any club.

I am in no way a defender of the cages some are bloody awful, some are just bad, some get by, some are ok. But they are here to stay for a while at least. We have to learn to live with them. Yes improve facilities don't just dismiss because we don't like them in principal.

The point I am continually trying to make is that there are traditional grounds that have issues for able and non abled fans attending. Just trying to have a balanced discussion about it. 

I never said I didn't like cages just the way most of them are built aren't particularly disabled friendly because of the barrier height and lack of accessible cover although getting into the ground is usually good because they tend to have ground level entry.

Some of the older grounds have their problems too with poor access and lack of flat viewing areas and inaccessible toilets.

 

[wintonfan]

Can appreciate how getting the capacity up at pollok by installing barriers would be costly paperwork is the issue they would have to prove that the steel has been tested for cracks all welding would have to be done by a coded welder, all footings would have to be a certain depth into reinforced concrete. The days of using old railway rail and scaffold tube are long gone. Steel prices are through the roof as are all building material. Plus the amount needed

[Guest]

On 24/05/2023 at 10:26, PossilYM said:

Come back in 20 years and I'll let you know.

Cop out.

Accidentally you've stumbled across an interesting question.

Will any of these clubs be around long term?

And will any of us be here to say told you these clubs were fly-by-night?

I feel the need to start a book on both.

[PossilYM]

1 minute ago, HorseyGhirl said:

Cop out.

Accidentally you've stumbled across an interesting question.

Will any of these clubs be around long term?

And will any of us be here to say told you these clubs were fly-by-night?

I feel the need to start a book on both.

It's already happened in one way or another.

Far too many teams at Senior level (league or non league) for the size of population.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, PossilYM said:

It's already happened in one way or another.

Far too many teams at Senior level (league or non league) for the size of population.

It's getting like back in the scheme. There was virtually a team every 2 or 3 closes.

To be fair there doesn't feel like the same amount of ammies and the under 21 scene when I was coaching was not a fraction of the size when I was playing, Jesus almost 40 years ago.

[PossilYM]

2 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

It's getting like back in the scheme. There was virtually a team every 2 or 3 closes.

To be fair there doesn't feel like the same amount of ammies and the under 21 scene when I was coaching was not a fraction of the size when I was playing, Jesus almost 40 years ago.

Well you're not getting street games like married men v single blokes at 5 bob a head to the winners.

That's gone forever.

But i still hear new names cropping up like Glasgow Athletic??? competing with Clyde and Finnart Star to get their hands on Crownpoint Sports Centre on the Gallowgate.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, PossilYM said:

Well you're not getting street games like married men v single blokes at 5 bob a head to the winners.

That's gone forever.

But i still hear new names cropping up like Glasgow Athletic??? competing with Clyde and Finnart Star to get their hands on Crownpoint Sports Centre on the Gallowgate.

5 bob, middle-class schemes up your way then.

Another feckin Glasgow; United, Wellington, Athletic. Very suspicious of any club that has Glasgow in its name. Perthshire the exception due to their origins.

Can't recall any teams that used Glasgow in their name, await to be told of loads.

[PossilYM]

21 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

5 bob, middle-class schemes up your way then.

Another feckin Glasgow; United, Wellington, Athletic. Very suspicious of any club that has Glasgow in its name. Perthshire the exception due to their origins.

Can't recall any teams that used Glasgow in their name, await to be told of loads.

Two pretty famous Glasgow teams but they seemed to have dropped the Glesga part in recent years.

[FairWeatherFan]

Glasgow Athletic seem to just be a fairly new youth organisation that's trying to keep their presence at Crownpoint.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by FairWeatherFan

[Johnstonian]

1 hour ago, PossilYM said:

Two pretty famous Glasgow teams but they seemed to have dropped the Glesga part in recent years.

What clubs are those?

[glensmad]

1 hour ago, PossilYM said:

Two pretty famous Glasgow teams but they seemed to have dropped the Glesga part in recent years.

They never actually had Glasgow in their names. The same as FC Bayern, International and Sporting Club de Portugal etc.