New clubs in the West of Scotland

[LongTimeLurker]

By 2022-23 premier is tier 6 and the conferences will have split based on final positions in 2021-22 into tiers 7-9. All development division clubs that meet league criteria and get voted in after next season will be tier 9 at that point. There might still be a development tier 10 if numbers suffice.

Edited May 25, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[AsimButtHitsASix]

6 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

That leaves the newcomers in a league of there own whilst next seasons places get sorted out.

The newcomers will play for promotion in season 22/23.

Sadly lost a season obviously to Covid but hey let's go forward.

Correct me if I have some of this wrong as I've missed a lot.

I thought the development league was a bunch of newcomers who can't get promoted and, AFAIK, promotion from the league is not dependent on league position. Campbeltown could finish bottom but be accepted to the league above by application if they get all their facilities in order but, in the first season in that league, no-one goes up. 

When you say will "play" for promotion in 22/23 does that mean only the development league winners can go up? And if other clubs join, BSC III for instance, would the eligible for promotion in their first season or would they also need a year in the development league before promotion like the current lot?

[Tutankhamen]

8 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Correct me if I have some of this wrong as I've missed a lot.

I thought the development league was a bunch of newcomers who can't get promoted and, AFAIK, promotion from the league is not dependent on league position. Campbeltown could finish bottom but be accepted to the league above by application if they get all their facilities in order but, in the first season in that league, no-one goes up. 

When you say will "play" for promotion in 22/23 does that mean only the development league winners can go up? And if other clubs join, BSC III for instance, would the eligible for promotion in their first season or would they also need a year in the development league before promotion like the current lot?

Just to clarify, we have just lost a whole season to Covid.

So tiers 6/7/8 haven't been decided yet.

As it stands there won't be any promotion from the newcomers league until 2023.

Regarding facilities, the league ain't asking for much just that the ground is fit for purpose.

I don't think a cage type ground with no dressing rooms would be acceptable.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Tutankhamen
f**k the SFA

[Dev]

Who knows but maybe one for the future as Councils are looking to make deals for sports organisations to take on sport facilities:

www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forums/index.php?threads/2021-scottish-pyramid-developments-facts-not-speculation-please.3904/page-21

From: SotonSats

“ Third Lanark Football Club, nicknamed The Hi Hi's, played at Cathkin Park in the South of Glasgow. The Club went out of business in 1967.
The black and white photo is a picture of the ground just before the closure.
The ground is now a Park, and you can see the crash rails on the terracing are still there in the colour photo.
There are plans to resurrect the Club, and there is a plan of a multi sport area, with a main pitch and terracing, with other pitches etc. surrounding the main area. The whole new project is to cost around £5 million. A plan of the project is shown in the final picture, and discussions are on going with the Glasgow Corporation. Watch this space!!! “

[Tutankhamen]

9 minutes ago, Dev said:

Who knows but maybe one for the future as Councils are looking to make deals for sports organisations to take on sport facilities:

www.nonleaguematters.co.uk/forums/index.php?threads/2021-scottish-pyramid-developments-facts-not-speculation-please.3904/page-21

From: SotonSats

“ Third Lanark Football Club, nicknamed The Hi Hi's, played at Cathkin Park in the South of Glasgow. The Club went out of business in 1967.
The black and white photo is a picture of the ground just before the closure.
The ground is now a Park, and you can see the crash rails on the terracing are still there in the colour photo.
There are plans to resurrect the Club, and there is a plan of a multi sport area, with a main pitch and terracing, with other pitches etc. surrounding the main area. The whole new project is to cost around £5 million. A plan of the project is shown in the final picture, and discussions are on going with the Glasgow Corporation. Watch this space!!! “

Maybe ground share with the Jimmy Johnstone Academy.

[Kennie]

Division 4 teams are playing to be declared winners of Division 4 and will be presented with a trophy and medals, just as all other Divisions.

There is no Promotion out of Division 4.

There is no Relegation into Division 4.

At the end of season 2021/22, teams that meet the requirements for Full Membership of the WoSFL can apply to join the WoSFL and will join at Division 3 for season 2022/23.

 

[Tutankhamen]

58 minutes ago, Kennie said:

Division 4 teams are playing to be declared winners of Division 4 and will be presented with a trophy and medals, just as all other Divisions.

There is no Promotion out of Division 4.

There is no Relegation into Division 4.

At the end of season 2021/22, teams that meet the requirements for Full Membership of the WoSFL can apply to join the WoSFL and will join at Division 3 for season 2022/23.

 

How many teams will be in Division 3 if all 9 newcomers pass the grade?

 

[FairWeatherFan]

32 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

How many teams will be in Division 3 if all 9 newcomers pass the grade?

 

66+9 = 16-16-16-27

An Annbank return, LL Pyramid Play-off permutations, and potential new applicants that can meet ground criteria are the main variables I suppose.

 

[Dev]

4 hours ago, Kennie said:

Division 4 teams are playing to be declared winners of Division 4 and will be presented with a trophy and medals, just as all other Divisions.

There is no Promotion out of Division 4.

There is no Relegation into Division 4.

At the end of season 2021/22, teams that meet the requirements for Full Membership of the WoSFL can apply to join the WoSFL and will join at Division 3 for season 2022/23.

 

Not clear about the "can apply"  and the "will join" bit. 

Is it correct that once a club is admitted as an Associate Member it is part of the League and existing member clubs cannot prevent it from becoming a Full Member club once it complies with the Full Membership requirements of the League.

[LongTimeLurker]

Pretty sure if you check back through parkcircus's posts you will find that they still need to be voted in by the existing members at the 2022 WoS AGM to be able to move up to Division 3 in 2022-23 and that's above and beyond meeting the league requirements.

[Dev]

Assuming that there are nine or more Associate Member clubs which progress to Full Membership in twelve months time then they go in at Tier 9 /Division Three rather than Tier 10. 

This may mean that there will be about 27 clubs at Tier 9.

Is there any guidance or current thinking as to how those clubs will be sorted out e.g. two parallel conferences?

[Dev]

5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Pretty sure if you check back through parkcircus's posts you will find that they still need to be voted in by the existing members at the 2022 WoS AGM to be able to move up to Division 3 in 2022-23 and that's above and beyond meeting the league requirements.

As things stand it appears that. in theory, an Associate Member club still risks being rejected by the current Full Member clubs even though it has gone to significant trouble and expense to reach WoS entry standards?

If so that's wrong. Applicant clubs deserve/need certainty so that they can plough ahead with meeting the criteria - which, for most, will require significant cost and manpower input.

Having said that I don't believe that member clubs would be so unwelcoming as to reject a club which has spent a year or more getting up to the required standard so why would they still need that potential Veto? Surely they should give the League Management the powers to accept Associate Member clubs into Full Membership?

 

[Dev]

Sadly the regular Third Lanark return to senior football is just a repeat of an old story so a late April 1st.

Which "famous" old clubs would you like to see re-appear (excluding all references to the OF)?

Renton would be neat local derby for Vale of Leven. In the east I hoped that St Bernards would survive to see through an entry into the EoS.  How about Bon Accord further north?

[Kennie]

4 hours ago, Dev said:

Not clear about the "can apply"  and the "will join" bit. 

Is it correct that once a club is admitted as an Associate Member it is part of the League and existing member clubs cannot prevent it from becoming a Full Member club once it complies with the Full Membership requirements of the League.

Jeez this is hard work sometimes. 

At the end of season 2021/22, teams that meet the requirements for Full Membership of the WoSFL can apply to join the WoSFL and if accepted will join at Division 3 for season 2022/23.

[Kennie]

3 hours ago, Dev said:

As things stand it appears that. in theory, an Associate Member club still risks being rejected by the current Full Member clubs even though it has gone to significant trouble and expense to reach WoS entry standards?

If so that's wrong. Applicant clubs deserve/need certainty so that they can plough ahead with meeting the criteria - which, for most, will require significant cost and manpower input.

Having said that I don't believe that member clubs would be so unwelcoming as to reject a club which has spent a year or more getting up to the required standard so why would they still need that potential Veto? Surely they should give the League Management the powers to accept Associate Member clubs into Full Membership?

 

If a club meets all requirements for Full Membership, the Management Committee will put them forward and recommend acceptance at the AGM.

We have a membership of 66 . It could take 34 clubs to reject them.

If a club doesn't meet the requirements they will not be put forward for acceptance.

[jimmycouch]

As things stand it appears that. in theory, an Associate Member club still risks being rejected by the current Full Member clubs even though it has gone to significant trouble and expense to reach WoS entry standards?
If so that's wrong. Applicant clubs deserve/need certainty so that they can plough ahead with meeting the criteria - which, for most, will require significant cost and manpower input.
Having said that I don't believe that member clubs would be so unwelcoming as to reject a club which has spent a year or more getting up to the required standard so why would they still need that potential Veto? Surely they should give the League Management the powers to accept Associate Member clubs into Full Membership?
 

Be hard for them to reject a member who meets the criteria when some of them don’t meet all of the criteria.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 hours ago, Kennie said:

Jeez this is hard work sometimes. 

At the end of season 2021/22, teams that meet the requirements for Full Membership of the WoSFL can apply to join the WoSFL and if accepted will join at Division 3 for season 2022/23.

I think most people are getting the hang of it after some explanation.

COVID led to the commitment not to negatively impact the original 67 that signed up for the WoSFL.. New applicants have come along a year later that have also been impacted by COVID. Such as trying to make ground improvements while in lockdown etc.

To balance that out the 2021-22 Fourth Division has been created as a temporary measure to provide a senior league for both compliant and work in progress applicants. The hope is that all Fourth Division clubs will meet the membership criteria once 2022 rolls around, pass a membership vote, and be incorporated into the bottom of the WoSFL proper.

What happens with any clubs that do not meet the membership criteria or fail to pass the membership vote is a bit of an unknown due to variables.

Edited May 26, 2021 by FairWeatherFan

[Tutankhamen]

No answer to how many teams will be in division 3 if all 9 newcomers are excepted.

8 hours ago, Dev said:

As things stand it appears that. in theory, an Associate Member club still risks being rejected by the current Full Member clubs even though it has gone to significant trouble and expense to reach WoS entry standards?

If so that's wrong. Applicant clubs deserve/need certainty so that they can plough ahead with meeting the criteria - which, for most, will require significant cost and manpower input.

Having said that I don't believe that member clubs would be so unwelcoming as to reject a club which has spent a year or more getting up to the required standard so why would they still need that potential Veto? Surely they should give the League Management the powers to accept Associate Member clubs into Full Membership?

 

Sadly i don't think the old Junior mentality has left some of these guys.

Imagine going all out to get things up to grade and then losing out by one vote.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Tutankhamen
f**k the SFA

[AsimButtHitsASix]

5 hours ago, Dev said:

Which "famous" old clubs would you like to see re-appear (excluding all references to the OF)?

Helensburgh FC need to return to allow extra days out in Argyll and Bute for away fans. Inverary, Bute Rangers and Lochgilphead for the same reasons.
Callender FC, one of the original 16 clubs to participate in the Scottish Cup, need to return pronto for both historic and good away day reasons. Campsie FC should also return to give them something akin to a rivalry.
Selkirk should return along with Duns and other former Borders sides to create a Borders league below the EoSFL
Bellstane Birds should return for the name alone.
Finally Bon Accord should get their shit together and finally get revenge on Arbroath.

 

[Hillonearth]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

As things stand it appears that. in theory, an Associate Member club still risks being rejected by the current Full Member clubs even though it has gone to significant trouble and expense to reach WoS entry standards?

If so that's wrong. Applicant clubs deserve/need certainty so that they can plough ahead with meeting the criteria - which, for most, will require significant cost and manpower input.

Having said that I don't believe that member clubs would be so unwelcoming as to reject a club which has spent a year or more getting up to the required standard so why would they still need that potential Veto? Surely they should give the League Management the powers to accept Associate Member clubs into Full Membership?

You know, that crossed my mind...with the advent of the WOSFL associate member tier, the bar's never been set lower for entry into senior football.

I think we can now almost certainly finally put the biennial Thirds-to-return news stories to bed now as being what they always in reality were...nothing more than a blawhard that liked seeing his name in the paper.