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New clubs in the West of Scotland


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2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:
9 minutes ago, Quotation Marks said:
That's my point, if an application is received prior to those discussions taking place, will that application be assessed on the criteria that was in place when it was made? 

I doubt that will play any part to be honest.

'your application must fall within a criteria that doesn't presently exist' 🤔

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'your application must fall within a criteria that doesn't presently exist' [emoji848]
Cmon, you know as well as I do WL clubs should go to the EoS. The leagues will meet to hopefully agree the boundary and applications will then be dealt with accordingly. They won't even be assessed until after the application deadlines, by which time the boundary will probably be defined.
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League 1  "Hey, we're getting some applications from clubs that should probably be applying to you. Do you think we should set some boundaries?"

League 2 "Sounds like a good idea, lets do it"

*negotiations and boundaries set*

League 1 "Yeah, we're still going to accept these applications that applied before we set our boundaries. They called Shotgun!"

Edited by FairWeatherFan
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10 minutes ago, Burnieman said:
13 minutes ago, Quotation Marks said:
'your application must fall within a criteria that doesn't presently exist' emoji848.png

Cmon, you know as well as I do WL clubs should go to the EoS. The leagues will meet to hopefully agree the boundary and applications will then be dealt with accordingly. They won't even be assessed until after the application deadlines, by which time the boundary will probably be defined.

Given you have no role with the WoS you are not in a position to clarify the finer points of how an application to the WoS would be handled. Apparently there is a general meeting of WoS clubs on Monday (?) after the elections for officeholders where issues like this will be discussed. If so, there's a good chance we will have a much clearer picture of what is happening in a few days time well before the deadline for applications to the EoS and WoS on March 31st.

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Given you have no role with the WoS you are not in a position to clarify the finer points of how an application to the WoS would be handled. Apparently there is a general meeting of WoS clubs on Monday (?) after the elections for officeholders where issues like this will be discussed. If so, there's a good chance we will have a much clearer picture of what is happening in a few days time well before the deadline for applications to the EoS and WoS on March 31st.


You really are having an absolute mare here. I'm being asked what is likely going to happen, and as I have some experience of being involved in these type of meetings and discussions, I'm giving an opinion.

The only thing you got right is I have no role with the WoS, no shit Sherlock [emoji23]
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2 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

It was always pie in the sky to keep the SJFA cup in its current format and I am of the opinion it would have ended up in a farce if it had been played in a normal season. T

I get the impression the SJFA are open to change in their cup (inviting others in) in hope of keeping it going as a meaningful cup.

image.thumb.png.d36b1060ebfb1a5596569de18e974919.png

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1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

 

How can anything be ratified for next season given the position football is currently in?  I gave your the two scenarios that the EoS will move to, and I'm sure if clubs were concerned, the EoS themselves would provide further details.

New applicants could find themselves in a position next season where they are only a Conference win away from the EoS Premier (if this season is null and voided), or only two promotions away (if it is concluded).  But again, I'm not sure that's the issue driving this.

I'm not saying it should already be ratified, I'm simply pointing out both league structures for newbies joining are unknown. It's full of ifs/maybes/i'm guessing.  Both yourself and Ginaro have confirmed a new club would be venturing into the unknown. 

I hope we know more after the WoS and EoS meetings which i believe take place in the 1st of March. How long does it take for official word to trickle out of these meetings?

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1 minute ago, Rockall said:

I'm not saying it should already be ratified, I'm simply pointing out both league structures for newbies joining are unknown. It's full of ifs/maybes/i'm guessing.  Both yourself and Ginaro have confirmed a new club would be venturing into the unknown. 

I hope we know more after the WoS and EoS meetings which i believe take place in the 1st of March. How long does it take for official word to trickle out of these meetings?

As I have pointed out twice, it's not an "unknown" as far as the EoS is concerned, it's one of two scenarios. The granular detail is missing due to the current situation, but that doesn't stop clubs applying to a league they should be moving to anyway in the knowledge that one of two scenarios will play out. At least three WL clubs have already applied, of which one may have also applied to WoS.

The WoS elect a new board on 1st March, that isn't when the leagues meet, I doubt a date for that has even been set.

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6 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

As I have pointed out twice, it's not an "unknown" as far as the EoS is concerned, it's one of two scenarios. The granular detail is missing due to the current situation, but that doesn't stop clubs applying to a league they should be moving to anyway in the knowledge that one of two scenarios will play out. At least three WL clubs have already applied, of which one may have also applied to WoS.

The WoS elect a new board on 1st March, that isn't when the leagues meet, I doubt a date for that has even been set.

I believe the 3 applications that have already been received were input before a certain WL club, who seem to be the driving force behind a push to the WoS, started trying to turn heads. 

I think the poster above hit the nail on the head. The most sensible thing to do would be to apply for both leagues and see how it all pans out.

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4 minutes ago, Rockall said:

I believe the 3 applications that have already been received were input before a certain WL club, who seem to be the driving force behind a push to the WoS, started trying to turn heads. 

I think the poster above hit the nail on the head. The most sensible thing to do would be to apply for both leagues and see how it all pans out.

Harthill you mean? yes I believe so, trying to persuade those who have already applied to the EoS.  It needs nipped in the bud pronto.

If they really see their future in the WoS then Harthill should have the courage of their own convictions and go for it without trying to cause problems elsewhere.

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On 15/02/2021 at 15:40, Pyramidic said:

An important meeting on 1st March:

 

Special General Meeting

West of Scotland Football League hereafter referred to as WoSFL.

Scottish Lowland Football League hereafter referred to as SLFL.

Special General Meeting hereafter referred to as SGM.

Interim Management Group hereafter referred to as IMG.

I have received an application signed by 10 clubs requesting a SGMin accordance with the current Constitution and Rules. 

6.6 Special General Meetings

6.6.1 Member Clubs shall have power to call a Special General Meeting. A Special General Meeting will be called on receipt of a requisition signed by ten Full Member Clubs within fourteen days after such requisition has been received. The requisition must state the business for which the meeting is called and this is the only business that can be concluded at the Special General Meeting concerned. Each Full Member Club whose subscription for the current season has been paid shall be entitled to send two representatives to all Special General Meetings.

That SGM will take place on Monday 1st March 2021 at 7PM and will be by Zoom due to the Covid restrictions.

Business of the meeting.

1) Proposals to alter the Constitution and Rules of the WoSFL.

2) Election of Management Board to facilitate handover from SLFL.

3) Election of representatives to the Scottish FA Non Professional Game Board and the Scottish FA Congress.

History and purpose behind the 3 items on the agenda.

The WoSFL was set up by the SLFL in 2020 and the Constitution and Rules was set up to allow administration of the League. People from within the membership were co-opted onto a sub-committee of the SLFL to look after that administration. In line with the constitution, I was also co-opted as a neutral to take up the position of Secretary.

Dave McKenna was appointed as Chair and Andrew Waddell was appointed as Treasurer.

That sub-committee took up the name of Interim Management Group of the WoSFL.

4 Governance

4.1 The governance and business of the League will rest with the Board of the Scottish Lowland Football League until such time as the Board and Office Bearers are elected, no later than March 2021.

In accordance with the above Rule the SLFL are handing over Governance to the WoSFL membership and the SGM has been called to facilitate the handover. During their time of administration of the WoSFL the IMG have identified that certain rules within the Constitution and Rules would not suit the needs of the WoSFL and would hamper the progress of the League. We have 67 clubs in membership and that looks likely to increase. We believe that the WoSFL would be better served by 3 secretaries rather than just 1 and therefore propose that we should have a General Secretary, a Discipline Secretary and a Fixture Secretary. We also appreciate that finding the right people to fulfil the Office Bearer roles of the 3 Secretaries and a Treasurer that are not already connected to a member club and are unwilling to give up their role with their club would be nigh on impossible, so we are also proposing that these roles are open to anyone as long as they are proposed and seconded by member clubs. In all likelihood the people with the knowledge and experience required will be with a club so we need the Constitution and Rules altered to allow us to elect the right people for the roles.

The proposed changes have been attached to the message sent to the Club Secretaries and can also be found on the Club Admin Site.

The second item on the agenda will be to form the Management Board of the WoSFL.

Anyone interested in any of the positions on the Board (Chair, Vice-Chair, General Secretary, Discipline Secretary, Fixture Secretary, Treasurer or Club Representative) should fill in the form to be found on the website. It can be found here – West of Scotland Football League (wosfl.co.uk) under Join the WOSFL. 

Apply for the WOSFL Board (google.com)

The closing date and time for applications is Monday 22nd February 2021 at 8PM.

The applications will then be processed and put forward for the SGM.

A full agenda with the proposals, candidates and procedure will be sent out with the invite to the meeting to all club secretaries prior to the meeting.

The third item will be to elect representatives from the new Board to the Scottish FA Non Professional Game Board and the Scottish FA Congress. 

The SGM will be closed following the election of the Board and a General Meeting will then take place to allow discussion on a few topics that need addressed.

Kennie Young

Secretary

IMG of PDM Buildbase WoSFL

Note the bolded and underlined parts above.

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5 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Harthill you mean? yes I believe so, trying to persuade those who have already applied to the EoS.  It needs nipped in the bud pronto.

If they really see their future in the WoS then Harthill should have the courage of their own convictions and go for it without trying to cause problems elsewhere.

I wasn't refering to Harthill.

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I'm not saying it should already be ratified, I'm simply pointing out both league structures for newbies joining are unknown. It's full of ifs/maybes/i'm guessing.  Both yourself and Ginaro have confirmed a new club would be venturing into the unknown. 

I hope we know more after the WoS and EoS meetings which i believe take place in the 1st of March. How long does it take for official word to trickle out of these meetings?
This was posted in the EoS forum. Option A in the event of this season being declared null and void, Option B in the event this season is finished. This is assuming all WL clubs join;

Option A:
Premier Division - 18 clubs
Division One - 3 conferences
Conference A - 15 clubs
Conference B - 14 clubs
Conference C - 14 clubs

Option B:
Premier Division - 16 clubs
Division One - 16 clubs
Division Two - 2 conferences
Conference A - 15 clubs
Conference B - 14 clubs
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Think rules were changed so there would be no more replays? My impression was challenging but not impossible to do it alongside the SCC, but maybe the WoS will now amend its rules in that regard once the LL no longer pulls the strings to make it easier? Personally hope the SJC and SCC get merged into something bigger and better than both eventually and that West Lothian clubs (Harthill are arguably really Lanarkshire) do wind up in the EoS, but find it bizarre to see Burnieman of all people trying to argue that Whitburn and co could stay in the SJFA and enter the SJC as things stand at the moment from the EoS.



I was taking into account the no replays rule but with it not being given precedence over league games one postponement and you are in a mess. For arguments sake Arthurlie are drawn away to Buckenhaven Hearts (as with a previous years one of my best away trips). It’s then called off then where do we go. Arthurlie are back to league buisness the next week and where do you find the next available slot?

Ideally I would like to see an FA Vase/Trophy type competition but it seems like the highland league aren’t interested in such a competition at this time. I don’t see any need to change the SCC which give the feel of a national tournament without the highland league clubs.
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If the WOSFL  accept say 12-16 new clubs for the 2021/22 season one can expect the following format:


Format 2021/22

Premier Division - 20 clubs

Division One - 3 conferences

Conference A - 16 clubs
Conference B - 16 clubs
Conference C - 15 clubs

New Clubs Division - 12-16 clubs


Format 2022/23

Premier Division - 16 clubs

Division One - 16 clubs

Division Two - 16 clubs

Division Three - 16 clubs

Division Four - Conferences?

Made up of bottom 3 clubs from 2021/22 Conferences
+ 12-16 clubs in New Clubs Division
+ new amateur and youth applicants


From this example clubs like Armadale and Bathgate would be at the very bottom of the Pyramid tree in 2022/23 playing at Tier 10 (or Tier 9 if they won the New Clubs Division?).

If they moved to the EOSFL instead they would be playing at Tier 7 or Tier 8. It should be a no brainer choosing whether to follow the WOSFL route or the EOSFL pathway.

EOSFL is clearly the most desirable and practical option for the West Lothian clubs to follow if they can only forgive the Junior exodus.

Edited by Pyramidic
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18 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Ideally I would like to see an FA Vase/Trophy type competition but it seems like the highland league aren’t interested in such a competition at this time. I don’t see any need to change the SCC which give the feel of a national tournament without the highland league clubs.

Bit more than the Highland League, who at least have the excuse of the Scottish Cup that would give them the same experience as what 90% of the entrants would have in a non-league national cup.

We already know the odd North Region club would sit out of the Junior Cup. Not sure they, the NCL, SoSFL, and some Borders clubs would be thrilled by a competition that extends to the Highlands down to D&G & Borders.

Regionalising the early rounds solves some problems but also erodes the point of a national trophy.

 

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9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Bit more than the Highland League, who at least have the excuse of the Scottish Cup that would give them the same experience as what 90% of the entrants would have in a non-league national cup.

We already know the odd North Region club would sit out of the Junior Cup. Not sure they, the NCL, SoSFL, and some Borders clubs would be thrilled by a competition that extends to the Highlands down to D&G & Borders.

Regionalising the early rounds solves some problems but also erodes the point of a national trophy.

 

Totally agree with what you say but even if the first 2 rounds were loosely regionalised (North and South for example) then you may get to play against teams from another league and then when the cup goes All-In, it will be Round 3 and the small teams who make it that far will have much more incentive to stretch themselves into playing these games

Edited by Spyro
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