New clubs in the West of Scotland

[Burnieman]

So the the decisions by a few West Lothian clubs 3 / 4 years ago should impact on a greater number of West Lothian making decisions regarding their future now?
If West Lothian is an east area in the pyramid I'm sure a map showing the boundary exists. 
I'm sure well run clubs that meet criteria would be attractive to any region ( from what you're saying the EoS seem to want them, why wouldn't the WoS?)
Entirely a decision for Craigroyston, Forth & Royal Albert.

You've still largely avoided the points I raised, and you know as well as I do where the accepted boundary exists.

Look we all know the real reason why some clubs are seeking WoS membership - you've just alluded to it - and to be honest, it's no way to make make decisions such as this.

Bathgate as a club haven't had their problems to seek recently, looking to move to WoS would just add to them IMO. There was a time when Bathgate were well ahead of Broxburn and Penicuik on and off the park, now Broxburn are playing St.Mirren and beating Cowdenbeath in the Scottish Cup. Penicuik are playing Partick Thistle.

EoS is where you should be playing, and trying to emulate them.

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Would love to see Oban Saints or Rothsay Brandane in the WoS..

I think everyone's quite mindful of Oban in particular. They moved to the Central fairly recently obviously thinking it was a step up. That's the division where Drumchapel United have their links. Oban also run a B team in the GGPL by looking at the tables. If they can do that they might well have the resources for the WoSFL. I mean Fort William have managed all these years in the Highland

[Bestsinceslicebread]

18 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

It is NOT the only way. The EoS and WoS could easily agree a boundary and have it ratified by their members, without any reference to the SFA.

I get that but its about fairness and this should be taken out of EOSFL and WOSFL and the SOSFL and so on.  It should be a survey done for the whole of Scotland, on a research basis, asking teams, committees, fans, people in the local community and yes that's a lot of work but at least every square foot of land will be in a definitive boundary and no individual looking to gain but stopping teams from jumping area or stopping teams because one egit on a committee is an ass.

 

I will say one big point is that some of these West Lothian teams might want to come into the WOSFL because they feel its a far more superiors Association. I'm not saying it is but they might think that

Edited February 25, 2021 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Burnieman]

I get that but its about fairness and this should be taken out of EOSFL and WOSFL and the SOSFL and so on.  It should be a survey done for the whole of Scotland, on a research basis, asking teams, committees, fans, people in the local community and yes that's a lot of work but at least every square foot of land will be in a definitive boundary and no individual looking to gain but stopping teams from jumping area or stopping teams because one egit on a committee is an ass.
 
I will say one big point is that some of these West Lothian teams might want to come into the WOSFL because they feel its a far more superiors Association. I'm not saying it is but they might think that

Or we just accept the Lothians is EoS. Job done, move on.

[Ginaro]

We had the Whitburn manager basically saying how great it was that they were playing in a West Lothian league this season. But given Livingston Utd and one or two others seem to be applying to the EOS, the only way of everyone continuing to play together with other WL clubs is to stick together and join the EOS.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Ginaro

[FairWeatherFan]

29 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Would love to see Oban Saints or Rothsay Brandane in the WoS..

Just checking where Rothesay Brandbane play. They're in the Caledonian AFL and been in the lower division the entire time from the available archive. More recently the league moved away from A & B First Divisions for a single division after expanding the league numbers.

In their time there they've had Stenhousemuir, Stirling Uni, and Dunblane. So they've certainly been putting ing a bit of travel. With the bigger leagues they would have played a 28 game league season last year. Another one that might actually look at the WoSFL once things settle.

[Spyro]

47 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Would love to see Oban Saints or Rothsay Brandane in the WoS..

So would I, just to see what the WL side say to travelling to Oban and Rothesay every 2 weeks ahead of Gala/Coldstream...

[never been to scotland]

As much as it's abundantly clear the west Lothian teams belong in the EOS I do love the thought of Bathgate et al trekking over to Oban Saints on a drizzly Tuesday night.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, never been to scotland said:

As much as it's abundantly clear the west Lothian teams belong in the EOS I do love the thought of Bathgate et al trekking over to Oban Saints on a drizzly Tuesday night.

Or Lochgilphead. 

[Hillonearth]

55 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I get that but its about fairness and this should be taken out of EOSFL and WOSFL and the SOSFL and so on.  It should be a survey done for the whole of Scotland, on a research basis, asking teams, committees, fans, people in the local community and yes that's a lot of work but at least every square foot of land will be in a definitive boundary and no individual looking to gain but stopping teams from jumping area or stopping teams because one egit on a committee is an ass.

I will say one big point is that some of these West Lothian teams might want to come into the WOSFL because they feel its a far more superiors Association. I'm not saying it is but they might think that

The thing is that the clubs in question are entirely the architects of the situation they currently find themselves in...they've buried their heads in the sand and pretended nothing had changed till now where they find themselves at the point of no return, with the level of denial being so high that at least one of them apparently convinced themselves that the various CFC teams who went Junior were actually the former ERSJFA clubs returning cap in hand after they realised the error of their ways.

And yeah, if it was one daftie on a committee shooting their mouth off it might be pause for thought, but the fact that there has been complete inertia from the clubs concerned suggests a quorum for their actions - or inactions - of the last few years. It would also be nice to think they think the WOS is a superior set-up, but based on what...the third of a season we managed to complete before COVID shut things down rather than the several seasons completed by the EOS since the other ERSJFA sides moved across? The inescapable truth is that we're talking about some groups of people who would rather continue to bury their heads in the sand and look elsewhere than the logical place for them to move to rather than have to admit they got it badly wrong.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Hillonearth

[FairWeatherFan]

16 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

The thing is that the clubs in question are entirely the architects of the situation they currently find themselves in...they've buried their heads in the sand and pretended nothing had changed till now where they find themselves at the point of no return, with the level of denial being so high that at least one of them apparently convinced themselves that the various CFC teams who went Junior were actually the former ERSJFA clubs returning cap in hand after they realised the error of their ways.

And yeah, if it was one daftie on a committee shooting their mouth off it might be pause for thought, but the fact that there has been complete inertia from the clubs concerned suggests a quorum for their actions - or inactions - of the last few years. It would also be nice to think they think the WOS is a superior set-up, but based on what...the third of a season we managed to complete before COVID shut things down rather than the several seasons completed by the EOS since the other ERSJFA sides moved across? The inescapable truth is that we're talking about some groups of people who would rather continue to bury their heads in the sand and look elsewhere than the logical place for them to move to rather than have to admit they got it badly wrong.

If ANY of the East Region teams thought that the WoSFL was that great, they would have signed up for it last year and been an equal in the new endeavour. Certainly the likes of Jon Connolly at Fauldhouse was encouraging the board to do something about entering the pyramid.

Yet they all thought it was great to stay where they were. Knowing they weren't getting into the pyramid as the PWG meetings ended and all the Fife teams had given about 2 months notice they were applying to the EoSFL.

Chances are the first thing they say if they get accepted into the WoSFL is "Don't you think we should regionalise?"

[Burnieman]

If ANY of the East Region teams thought that the WoSFL was that great, they would have signed up for it last year and been an equal in the new endeavour. Certainly the likes of Jon Connolly at Fauldhouse was encouraging the board to do something about entering the pyramid.
Yet they all thought it was great to stay where they were. Knowing they weren't getting into the pyramid as the PWG meetings ended and all the Fife teams had given about 2 months notice they were applying to the EoSFL.
Chances are the first thing they say if they get accepted into the WoSFL is "Don't you think we should regionalise?"

They all (or at least most) of them decided to stick together as a West Lothian league after getting the ERJFA regionalised and thought they could make a go of it and expand it. They used to have inter-club committee quiz nights where this was discussed. I think at that time they also believed there would still be a reasonably large WRJFA operating.

Then the WoS happened, and I know some felt they had been shafted by their friends in the West leaving the Juniors en-masse. All of a sudden they were the only Juniors south of Tayside.

Livvy decided they had seen enough and applied to the EoS, way too late for this season but made it clear they'd come back this year, and they have.

For those that remain it's a succession of bad decisions over the last 3 years, yet the clubs who left for the EoS are apparently the ones to blame for it all.

It seems some are not learning from their bad decisions.

[Dev]

4 hours ago, Quotation Marks said:

As a supporter of one of the West Lothian clubs that may apply to the pyramid I'm intrigued at the level of debate that's been generated.

As stated multiple times on this thread there is no boundary between the EoS and WoS, as the teams involved are geographically placed in such a way that travel to either region would be pretty much similar why shouldn't they give consideration to WoS? 

I fail to see how having a history in the ERSJFA should limit the Clubs choices regarding what is the best way forward for them. Should a West Lothian club (or a few) decide the WoS is where they wish to start the new chapter of their history, I say 'all the best'. I really don't see how this will damage the pyramid.

I welcome any club that meets the criteria to allow them to get into the Senior Pyramid so Welcome, in advance. I hope you will enjoy being part of the Senior Grade family.

In so many respects there won't be a huge difference when compared with the Juniors. Many of the clubs are the same and so are the grounds, although lots have started up-grading to reach senior standard or to go further and gain a SFA basic licence which would give an annual income plus entry into the most important cup competition which is available to Scottish clubs. Some of the West Lothian clubs already have decent grounds and they'll feel at home straight away. Some of the others may need a bit of sprucing up but the senior leagues are likely to be as helpful as they can about that. Quite a few of the Fife ex Juniors have made big efforts to improve their grounds to the required minimum standard and that is really good to see.

Also the vast majority of fans are just the same as yours. If you go to the EoS you will be able to renew old friendships and rivalries. If west then you'll make new friends and rivals. That's football after all. It really doesn't matter a h.ll which league you play in as all existing clubs will not be looking out for the West Lothian clubs. They'll be just getting on with their own seasons as usual (in a non covid situation).

If I was a fan of one of the clubs from West Lothian which is considering the future there are some points which would be giving me restless nights.

[a] The first is that, although any club can apply to whichever league it chooses and the application can be accepted for submission to the membership there is no way of knowing how the member clubs with respond to such applications. The league's management may hold their own or, indeed, collective, views but it is down to a vote of the clubs to decide which, if any, clubs may be accepted for 2021/22.

There is the associated question of which Division/conference new club(s) will be placed in and at what level within the league's own structure. 

[c] I understand that both the EoS and the WoS may be (?) holding their AGMs at the same date. Perhaps someone can advise? There are potential complications for West Lothian clubs which may be looking at only one option, i.e. WoS, should the application to this league be rejected by the existing clubs. Where do they go from there as all Scottish football leagues and associations deadlines for applications will have passed??

[d]  Should a West Lothian club apply to more than one league i.e. two or more of WoS, EoS or an appropriate amateur league with AGMs being held on the same date. Which does the club attend and, if not accepted by that league, why should another league "pick up the pieces"? In any case it would be a bad way to atart a potential long-term relationship with the new league.

Just some food for thought.

NB the BOLD type isn't mine. It's just how the site uploaded the text!!

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Dev
...

[Whitburn Vale]

28 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If ANY of the East Region teams thought that the WoSFL was that great, they would have signed up for it last year and been an equal in the new endeavour. Certainly the likes of Jon Connolly at Fauldhouse was encouraging the board to do something about entering the pyramid.

Yet they all thought it was great to stay where they were. Knowing they weren't getting into the pyramid as the PWG meetings ended and all the Fife teams had given about 2 months notice they were applying to the EoSFL.

Chances are the first thing they say if they get into the WoSFL is "Don't you think we should regionalise?"

That last paragraph is spot on FWF.....,

That is exactly the route they are going down and have asked the WoSFL to consider....

The Harthill guy I know,says they're defo going for WoSFL and want most of the other WL clubs to join them and preferably in a regionilised bottom league in the WoSFL..

[PastyMan]

2 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

 

 

I will say one big point is that some of these West Lothian teams might want to come into the WOSFL because they feel its a far more superiors Association. I'm not saying it is but they might think that

Surely that would  be committing the the sin of "delusions of grandeur"?

[santheman]

19 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

That last paragraph is spot on FWF.....,

That is exactly the route they are going down and have asked the WoSFL to consider....

The Harthill guy I know,says they're defo going for WoSFL and want most of the other WL clubs to join them and preferably in a regionilised bottom league in the WoSFL..

There's already been some feelers put out about this scenario to some WOS clubs.

Its no secret that travel costs are a major issue for the smaller Lanarkshire based clubs and the prospect of a 20 min jaunt up the M8 instead of a 60 min drive down to the Ayrshire coast and the prospect of playing different teams might prove quite appealing to them.

Not sure there would be enough widespread support  from the other WOS clubs though to approve membership for the WL teams allegedly showing interest.

 

[Burnieman]

That last paragraph is spot on FWF.....,
That is exactly the route they are going down and have asked the WoSFL to consider....
The Harthill guy I know,says they're defo going for WoSFL and want most of the other WL clubs to join them and preferably in a regionilised bottom league in the WoSFL..

So they want to come in on their terms? [emoji23]

[Pyramidic]

2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

So they want to come in on their terms?

Perhaps retaining membership of the SJFA and entry into the Junior Cup is the other requirement.

[Burnieman]

Perhaps retaining membership of the SJFA and entry into the Junior Cup is the other requirement.

They can do that in the EoS if they want.

[Ginaro]

7 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Perhaps retaining membership of the SJFA and entry into the Junior Cup is the other requirement.

Don't think the EOS would have a problem with that. But clubs would need to retain SJFA membership either in the East (just not playing in a ER structure) or in the WOSFL - however moving west would surely require 12 months notice from these clubs?