FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: ...so having a sensible looking division in numbers terms for would be newcomers next season probably requires a strong West Lothian component at this point given half of that could easily be from the east region south (Fauldhouse, Harthill, Whitburn, Armadale, Staneyburn, Bathgate and West Calder). From what's been said in the EoS Forum, West Calder are leaning EoS and Bathgate haven't decided anything yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Pyramidic said: Surely the SFA should be leading on boundary definitions rather than remaining impotent / silent on such a key matter. In an ideal world, yes, but given that the SFA couldn't find Armadale on a map of Armadale, we should probably all be grateful that they're staying out of it. I have massively more confidence in the leadership of the EoS and WoS to sort out their boundary and arrangements for any special cases than I have in the SFA. I'd love to know who came up with the completely barking idea of having the line between north and south at T5 as a line of latitude. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, parkcircus said: None of them have applied So when do the clubs find out which ones have applied? How does the process of admitting new clubs compare to the old Juniors regime? Wasn't it a case of (usually individually) clubs would apply, their ground inspected then by the time it came t the SJFA AGM it was just a formality of voting them in. I have no real idea how it worked. When all the clubs applied the last time (67 + 1 rejected) it was only after all the clubs were accepted we found out which one had been rejected. Do we find out on 1st April the names of the clubs that have applied? Are we back to drawing up tables on P&B of yes/no/maybe from Twitter statements from clubs? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfha Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 The problem with the Scottish pyramid system is all the leagues are autonomous and can therefore set their own boundaries and decide who gets in. In England the FA are more hands on. I might be wrong but aren't the FA the official organisers of the Premiership, I recall it was founded as the FA Premier League. The SFA missed the boat on this and have been sidelined somewhat and really need to get a grip on matters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) People can keep quoting England, but the system they have won't work here either. At steps 2 - 4 the FA basically sets the leagues based on the clubs coming up and down. As a result, there have been some teams in the Conference North that aren't northern by any means like Bishop Stortford, Gloucester City etc. And although in England the population is also more weighted to the south, it's not nearly as extreme as Scotland. They have major population centres in the north of the country like Tyne & Wear, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Leeds/Bradford, Sheffield, Teesside etc. And then there is the Midlands (East & West) as well. Considering how skewed their "northern" leagues are already, that would be far more extreme here in Scotland where the north is in comparison far less populated than the north of England. If anything, Germany is a better country to compare Scotland to. They also have geographical challenges with certain regions being sparsely populated and others very densely. They have set boundaries between leagues (usually on boundaries between Bundesländer and at lower levels divided on internal political borders within those Bundesländer). Promotion and relegation is adapted so heavily populated areas have more promotion spots than sparsely populated areas to keep it as fair as possible. For Scotland, I'd support a system of fixed boundaries a bit like what they have in Germany. Obviously, supporting a Tayside junior team I have a specific interest in the issue. However, at this stage I don't care anymore where we end up as long as we get a place in the pyramid. Whether it's in a standalone Tayside league (either underneath the HL or LL), part of the North Juniors or part of the EOS, I just want some certainty and all this speculation and mud-throwing to be over with. As long as the Dundee/Angus clubs are in the same region. It would be madness if say Lochee United end up in the North while Broughty Athletic are in the EOS or something like that. Just like it would be madness to have a similar situation in West Lothian between the WOS & EOS. Edited February 16, 2021 by Marten 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, sfha said: The SFA missed the boat on this and have been sidelined somewhat and really need to get a grip on matters. The SFA never really even tried. The way the Highland & Lowland Regional Divisions sounded more like they would fall under what became the SPFL. Then all the existing non-leagues would be tucked under. In the end the Highland League stayed intact and all the SFA really did was start the Lowland League and hand over the running to the members. If anything during most of this they probably hoped that the SJFA would take on a role largely overseeing the non-league. It was the existing pyramid leagues that had to get Tier 6 overseen by the SFA's JPP. The SFA were happy for the SJFA to do their own thing with some rule changes, with the SFA only overseeing the promotion playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, theesel1994 said: So when do the clubs find out which ones have applied? How does the process of admitting new clubs compare to the old Juniors regime? Wasn't it a case of (usually individually) clubs would apply, their ground inspected then by the time it came t the SJFA AGM it was just a formality of voting them in. I have no real idea how it worked. When all the clubs applied the last time (67 + 1 rejected) it was only after all the clubs were accepted we found out which one had been rejected. Do we find out on 1st April the names of the clubs that have applied? Are we back to drawing up tables on P&B of yes/no/maybe from Twitter statements from clubs? Some clubs may able to both EOS and WOS or even decline so I’d imagine it would put to members prior to the AGM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 47 minutes ago, Marten said: Just like it would be madness to have a similar situation in West Lothian between the WOS & EOS. You should no longer be surprised by the madness of Scottish football Marten, you've been here long enough! Having a free-for-all, pick-n-mix in West Lothian would be daft as well as irresponsible, but there you go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Marten said: People can keep quoting England, but the system they have won't work here either. At steps 2 - 4 the FA basically sets the leagues based on the clubs coming up and down. As a result, there have been some teams in the Conference North that aren't northern by any means like Bishop Stortford, Gloucester City etc. And although in England the population is also more weighted to the south, it's not nearly as extreme as Scotland. They have major population centres in the north of the country like Tyne & Wear, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Leeds/Bradford, Sheffield, Teesside etc. And then there is the Midlands (East & West) as well. Considering how skewed their "northern" leagues are already, that would be far more extreme here in Scotland where the north is in comparison far less populated than the north of England. If anything, Germany is a better country to compare Scotland to. They also have geographical challenges with certain regions being sparsely populated and others very densely. They have set boundaries between leagues (usually on boundaries between Bundesländer and at lower levels divided on internal political borders within those Bundesländer). Promotion and relegation is adapted so heavily populated areas have more promotion spots than sparsely populated areas to keep it as fair as possible. For Scotland, I'd support a system of fixed boundaries a bit like what they have in Germany. Obviously, supporting a Tayside junior team I have a specific interest in the issue. However, at this stage I don't care anymore where we end up as long as we get a place in the pyramid. Whether it's in a standalone Tayside league (either underneath the HL or LL), part of the North Juniors or part of the EOS, I just want some certainty and all this speculation and mud-throwing to be over with. As long as the Dundee/Angus clubs are in the same region. It would be madness if say Lochee United end up in the North while Broughty Athletic are in the EOS or something like that. Just like it would be madness to have a similar situation in West Lothian between the WOS & EOS. In England the inter-league boundaries are flexible and that doesn't work there either as it is heavily balanced in favour of the south-east. I agree that fixed boundaries would be the best way forward in Scotland. Agree also with your 3rd paragraph. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy groundhopper Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just out of interest, with the WOSFL now senior, along with the South, EOS, Lowland, and with the players a step up from the amateurs playing on local parks etc : what do clubs consider to be a 'fair' amount of travel , to and from games ? 50-100 miles, 2-3 hours drive, admittedly with people possibly working on match day, they may not be able to go far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 21 hours ago, parkcircus said: There’s more to life than West Lothian, which at present doesn’t represent half of the interested clubs, it’ll be a very much West league if it starts Surprised this didn't create more of a stir. Sounds like 10+ amateur and youth clubs from old west region sort of territory want to step up and think they can meet EoS style ground criteria in time for next season despite what's happening on COVID lockdowns right now. Find that mildly mind blowing where revelations made by officialdom on P&B go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Surprised this didn't create more of a stir. Sounds like 10+ amateur and youth clubs from old west region sort of territory want to step up and think they can meet EoS style ground criteria in time for next season despite what's happening on COVID lockdowns right now. Find that mildly mind blowing where revelations made by officialdom on P&B go. Let’s start the speculation then... I’ll start with Colville, based on absolutely nothing apart from they have their own private park 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Starko Rover Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Nothing to stop any club applying but the WOS should probably steer the West Lothian clubs to the EOS I doubt the WOS and EOS will want to tread on each other’s toes. Let’s be honest they’re trying to join the WOS rather than eat humble pie in joining the EOS as there was a lot said on social media, however I hope they’ll be allowed the same SJFA membership if they want to retain it, surely the SJFA could alter their rule to allow it. With the WOS, SOS and EOS now completing the LL area perhaps it’s time for the leagues to look at drawing up agreed boundaries once the WOS board is sorted of course. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, Spyro said: Let’s start the speculation then... I’ll start with Colville, based on absolutely nothing apart from they have their own private park Clearly it's Third Lanark! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Surprised this didn't create more of a stir. Sounds like 10+ amateur and youth clubs from old west region sort of territory want to step up and think they can meet EoS style ground criteria in time for next season despite what's happening on COVID lockdowns right now. Find that mildly mind blowing where revelations made by officialdom on P&B go. It's something that's been speculated about since the WoSFL came into existence. Last year there was meant to be more interest from non-Junior clubs that never went through with applications. With the hit that Amateur football has taken due to COVID as well as the growing number of youth/amateur background clubs in senior football it's not that surprising. How they go about i'm sure will be a mix that we've already seen: groundshares and relatively soulless "cages" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramidic Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Spyro said: Let’s start the speculation then... I’ll start with Colville, based on absolutely nothing apart from they have their own private park Speculation adds a degree of spice to the debate. I will put forward Strathclyde University. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, Pyramidic said: Speculation adds a degree of spice to the debate. I will put forward Strathclyde University. Double nope 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Steins Thistle applying would a wonderful piece of shithousery considering the West Lothian debate... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramidic Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) It would be interesting if Newton Stewart from the SOSFL apply to join the WOSFL. This would take the boundary definition discussions to another level. Another possibility is for Scoutable United to have a second stab at the WOSFL following their setback in April last year. They have had plenty of time to prepare afresh. Edited February 18, 2021 by Pyramidic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Spyro said: Let’s start the speculation then... I’ll start with Colville, based on absolutely nothing apart from they have their own private park Colville fell out with Colville and play at Dalziel unless I have missed a kiss n make up? Edited February 18, 2021 by cmontheloknow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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