Newbornbairn Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, bairn88 said: “You have invented in your own mind”, whilst you’ve manufactured some definition of full time league on some arbitrary amount of part time/full time clubs in that league. Bizarre. er no, I'm saying that a league consisting of any mix of P/T and F/T teams is by it's very nature semi-professional, ie not fully professional. The only fully professional league in Scotland is therefore the Premier. Fannybaws is trying to say the Championship is a professional league of P/T and F/T teams whilst league one & two aren't. The difference is only one of degree, which changes each season. If 6 P/T teams ended up in the Championship, by VTs logic it would cease to be a professional league whilst 6 FT teams in League One would make that a professional league. I'll say it again - Premier = professional league. Championship, L1 & L2 = semi-professional. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 When was the last time that the majority of teams in the second tier were part-time? When was the last time that a majority of teams in the third tier were full-time? If the status of the leagues 'changes every year' then I'm sure that the answers to the above two questions will be within recent memory. Meanwhile, back in the realm of reality, the Scottish second tier is an established professional division and the third tier is semi-professional, every single year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bairn88 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said: er no, I'm saying that a league consisting of any mix of P/T and F/T teams is by it's very nature semi-professional, ie not fully professional. The only fully professional league in Scotland is therefore the Premier. Fannybaws is trying to say the Championship is a professional league of P/T and F/T teams whilst league one & two aren't. The difference is only one of degree, which changes each season. If 6 P/T teams ended up in the Championship, by VTs logic it would cease to be a professional league whilst 6 FT teams in League One would make that a professional league. I'll say it again - Premier = professional league. Championship, L1 & L2 = semi-professional. Re read my post. I’m agreeing with you. I also don’t know where VT has got this idea that the leagues have been shutdown because of this part time / full time definition. I haven’t seen that communicated anywhere. But he may be #itk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, bairn88 said: Re read my post. I’m agreeing with you. I also don’t know where VT has got this idea that the leagues have been shutdown because of this part time / full time definition. I haven’t seen that communicated anywhere. But he may be #itk It was in the initial justification for the shutdown. Indeed it was the only reason given for divide between championship and the lower leagues. What more do you want? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bairn88 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, parsforlife said: It was in the initial justification for the shutdown. Indeed it was the only reason given for divide between championship and the lower leagues. What more do you want? Ahhh gotcha, I thought VT meant specifically that we were defined as a “part time league” rather than just some clubs within it that were part time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 AIUI the justification for keeping leagues of full time clubs going was it is theoretically possible to keep FT players in a sporting bubble so when they're playing each other in a contact sport, the risk is minimised and any infection can't spread to the wider community. Especially when combined with testing. I'm sure that's what the football authorities would have told government when they were lobbying for a restart. This bubble is impossible with part time clubs as their players have to go back to being plumbers, posties etc. Add in that nobody outside the Premier was doing any testing at first (when did the Championship introduce testing? January?) then the whole thing is a farce and government should have stepped in. All three leagues outside the Premier are a mix of PT and FT teams so any "sporting bubble" doesn't exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 29 minutes ago, virginton said: When was the last time that the majority of teams in the second tier were part-time? When was the last time that a majority of teams in the third tier were full-time? If the status of the leagues 'changes every year' then I'm sure that the answers to the above two questions will be within recent memory. Meanwhile, back in the realm of reality, the Scottish second tier is an established professional division and the third tier is semi-professional, every single year. How often it happens doesn't really matter. If your contention is that a certain amount of part time teams in a league makes it semi-pro, then you are by default saying that the championship could be semi-pro and league 1 professional, so long as an admittedly unlikely (but by no means out of the realms of possibility) series of promotions and relegations took place between the divisions. That's just daft. You're right about most else being discussed here, but that's an untenable position. The four leagues are professional, with the top two full-time leagues bar two exceptions. That's the distinction as well we all know it. I think there's a general acceptance the there really shouldn't be any football until the prevalence of the virus drops. That prevalence is dropping, and we should see that continue with a fair wind from here on out to the end of the month. Worth pointing out as well that, although leagues 1 and 2 were stopped at the same time as amateur, junior and women's football, there's good reason to expect that the two SPFL leagues could and should be returned to playing earlier than the rest, especially with testing as a additional screen, which should really have been a bare minimum from the get go. Given the degree of lockdown across society at the moment, I do wonder how many of the part time players who have other jobs are actually going out to do those jobs. How many are either furloughed, working from home or unable to work at the present time in their non-football job? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, AndyDD said: How often it happens doesn't really matter. If your contention is that a certain amount of part time teams in a league makes it semi-pro, then you are by default saying that the championship could be semi-pro and league 1 professional, so long as an admittedly unlikely (but by no means out of the realms of possibility) series of promotions and relegations took place between the divisions. How often it happens does matter, when the answer to the second of those questions is in fact 'never'. If a majority of teams in the North Caledonian League got their own Brooks Mileson figure and went full-time tomorrow then it would become a professional league. By virtue of having a majority of clubs paying professional players to play at that level. It is not a professional league because just like Scottish League One, that is not the case. Edited February 9, 2021 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life on Marrs? Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 The reason the top 2 leagues were given special dispensation is that they are considered elite athletes (I know people will have an opinion on that, but it's the best we have). For the same reason Andy Murray gets to fly to oz, England are currently playing cricket in India & the Olympics are due to go ahead in the summer, top athletes cannot just down tools for 6 months and be expected to perform at their peak level once given the green light. For what it's worth I'm missing my football, pub, gym taking the kids to stuff as much as the next guy, but livelihoods & lives are at stake let's not forget that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 I was under the impression football was allowed to continue not because of any wider benefit or ability to manage within restrictions, but because the whole shooting match would go tits up if they didn't fulfil the telly contract. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlife Crisis Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Close down the lower leagues cos that’s where the risk of infections lies? what teams have all had to self isolate or had outbreaks? Sellick, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock. All premier league teams. So the wee diddy teams have been sacrificed for the transgressions of the “elite”. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Midlife Crisis said: Close down the lower leagues cos that’s where the risk of infections lies? what teams have all had to self isolate or had outbreaks? Sellick, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock. All premier league teams. So the wee diddy teams have been sacrificed for the transgressions of the “elite”. Tell us the number of cases compared to the number of tests and you might wish to reconsider that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life on Marrs? Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 We don't know which of the wee Diddy teams have had outbreaks, there's been no testing. A line had to be drawn somewhere, having hundreds of untested players travelling the length & breadth of the country, for often not much more than a hobby (I'm including amateur teams in this) during a national lockdown doesn't sit right. It was chosen to draw the line below the top 2 leagues, nothing to do with professional/semi professional arguments. No matter where it was drawn, the people affected just under this line would feel hard done-by. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, Midlife Crisis said: Close down the lower leagues cos that’s where the risk of infections lies? what teams have all had to self isolate or had outbreaks? Sellick, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock. All premier league teams. So the wee diddy teams have been sacrificed for the transgressions of the “elite”. Not this shite again? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bairn88 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) https://twitter.com/dulwichhamletfc/status/1359226823465394179?s=21 Elsewhere, the English National league farce puts our current situation into a bit of perspective. Now THAT is a shambles Edited February 9, 2021 by bairn88 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milhouse Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) virginton just making it as he goes along here, desperately trying to convince others (and himself, as always) that Greenock are big time. Edited February 9, 2021 by milhouse 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, bairn88 said: https://twitter.com/dulwichhamletfc/status/1359226823465394179?s=21 Elsewhere, the English National league farce puts our current situation into a bit of perspective. Now THAT is a shambles Aye but "only in Scotland, pure laughing stock, blah blah zzzzzz" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 5 hours ago, The Moonster said: I guess where we disagree is that I don't think someone playing football (professional, semi-professional or amateur) is carrying out essential work but we'll leave it there. The Scottish Govt. makes no distinction between essential and non-essential work. Their guidance on reasonable excuses to leave home include the following; 'for work or an activity associated with seeking employment, or to provide voluntary or charitable services, but only where that cannot be done from your home.' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Because it is not enough games. Clubs have already agreed from the start to play 9 games less, how many more games do we need to surrender before we admit the season is a right off.Do you genuinely believe that your club would have performed better had it known up front that it would be 18 games rather than 27? If you do then it’s surely the clubs fault that they underperformed?Incidentally, cancelling the season opens up the clubs to having to repay season tickets at least in part to many supporters. I doubt many clubs will want that scenario....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Are we getting into "restriction of trade" territory? Company A commits to do X, Y and Z and is allowed to trade. Company B in the same industry commits to do X, Y and Z but isn't allowed to trade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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