Scottish lower league football locked down for 3 weeks

[jagsfan57]

^^^The way to oppose generalisations is to come up with another.

What’s my generalisation?

[jagsfan57]

Goodness me!
I'm doing no such thing. I AM assuming that some part timers (probably most of them) DO go to another place of work and aren't furloughed or working from home though. Something that generally isn't the case with full time footballers.
You're ploughing a lone furrow here with this case that part timers have no more interaction with society outside their football squad than full timers. It is nonsense. Plainly.

I maybe plowing a lone furrow - it doesn’t mean I am wrong.

Why are you assuming that most part time players are having to go to another full time job and probably by public transport.

Somebody even suggesting that they all work on huge construction sites

[falkirkthebigclub]

44 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Well yes Rangers for one did so when there was no need for it.  All the points made on this are subjective but maybe your overall inference could be considered grossly selfish.  Some gratitude for the assistance actually received in these hard times might be more apt rather than casting envious eyes elsewhere. 

Suggesting grants be means tested is hardly the most selfish incident you'll witness in Scottish football, considering our entire decision making process is based on the indivual desires of our member clubs. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

You reversed the generalisation you said @Skyline Drifter made.

[Skyline Drifter]

18 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

I maybe plowing a lone furrow - it doesn’t mean I am wrong.

Why are you assuming that most part time players are having to go to another full time job and probably by public transport.

Somebody even suggesting that they all work on huge construction sites

Not once did I say part time players were travelling "probably by public transport". You've made that up. I said some part timers might use it which is more likely than full timers. That's not even in the same postcode as being the same thing.

And I'm assuming most part time players have to go to another full time job because I'd imagine more have a full time job outside football than don't. My basis for suggesting that is years of working with part time football clubs and being aware that most players had full time jobs outside football. And statistically, those who do have full time jobs are still more likely to be attending them than working from home or furloughed.

Ploughing a lone furrow doesn't mean you're wrong. In this case specifically though you are very wrong.

[jagsfan57]

You reversed the generalisation you said [mention=106]Skyline Drifter[/mention] made.

You will need to be more specific- I can’t see any generalisation I have made.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

You will need to be more specific- I can’t see any generalisation I have made.

He said that part timers were more likely to attend work. You gave generalised reasons why they wouldn't.

[jagsfan57]

Not once did I say part time players were travelling "probably by public transport". You've made that up. I said some part timers might use it which is more likely than full timers. That's not even in the same postcode as being the same thing.
And I'm assuming most part time players have to go to another full time job because I'd imagine more have a full time job outside football than don't. My basis for suggesting that is years of working with part time football clubs and being aware that most players had full time jobs outside football. And statistically, those who do have full time jobs are still more likely to be attending them than working from home or furloughed.
Ploughing a lone furrow doesn't mean you're wrong. In this case specifically though you are very wrong.

What statistics?
The national statistics are that there are approximately 30M in the working population. Of that 9M were on furlough. Of the people working 46%were working from home. So 2/3 of the working population are NOT travelling to work. On that basis 2/3 of part time footballers actually have less contact with people than full time footballers.

You may have data more specific to part time footballers. Please share

[jagsfan57]

Fucking Hell!

What ?

[Sergeant Wilson]

14 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

What ?

It's an expression of surprise at a ludicrous statement.

 

[rockson]

On 20/01/2021 at 17:09, jagsfan57 said:

 

Other sports were doing that. Cricket did it during the summer. Pretty sure rugby did it during the autumn and even then there were breeches.
It only takes one not to observe the protocols and everyone is at risk.

Breaches. A breech is different from a breach.

Breech:-  the part of a cannon behind the bore, or, the back part of a rifle or gun barrel, or, a person's buttocks - hence 'breech birth'.

Breach:- an act of breaking, or, a gap in a wall or barrier.

Edited January 21, 2021 by rockson

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, jagsfan57 said:

What statistics?
The national statistics are that there are approximately 30M in the working population. Of that 9M were on furlough. Of the people working 46%were working from home. So 2/3 of the working population are NOT travelling to work. On that basis 2/3 of part time footballers actually have less contact with people than full time footballers.

You may have data more specific to part time footballers. Please share

The working population of Scotland is about 2.7m. According to the Scottish Govt data during the 1st lockdown about 15% were furloughed, about half the rate you suggest. The ONS suggests up to 46% of the UK population did SOME work from home in lockdown 1. But thats UK and it isnt clear how many wholly worked from home. I did SOME work from home in lockdown 1 but only a little and I still wsnt to work at times. Its far to early for any published stats on lockdown 2 but it is pretty clear that less people are furloughed than last time and less people are working from home. In addition, by its nature, those not working from home are far more likely to be in public facing jobs with high contact numbers. WFH tends to be mostly office based staff with few direct contacts anyway. The sort of people who sit at a computer or telephone all day.

The notion that people with a second job will on average come into contact with less people who might be carrying Covid than those with one job is a laughable supposition, doubly so given the full time leagues are testing.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Skyline Drifter

[theoriginalhedge]

I tend to agree to some extent about the generalisation  and perception of part time football from certain quarters of the full time set up and have mentioned it earlier in one of these covid threads.  

I hadn't really taken much notice of this until last season when our club were taking all sorts of flack from just about everyone.  It was a lonely place but through it all I skimmed through the league forums to guage  reactions to all the decisions, allegations and statements . As time went on the more you could see a them and us scenario happening with sides being taken on league reconstruction, promotions and relegations etc . It became very apparent that the fans of the full time clubs felt more entitled to guaranteed survival than the part time ones . 

When you see conversations like the last few pages and also conversations I have had on previous threads you can see similarities in opinion. Some more forceful than others. 

  It makes for good debate , frustrating at times  but rewarding when your valid points are appreciated. 

 

Sadly though , it appears similar perceptions are not restricted to these forums and decisions  made at higher levels often give the impression that part time football is a second thought. 

 

 

[roman_bairn]

I’d be vehemently against means testing of grants. Every team in the same division should be receiving the same amount or the Government are unduly influencing the competition.
My only issue was with the imbalance.
£500k for the Championship seems excessive against £150k and £100k for the two divisions below.
Surely £400k, £200k and £150k would have been a fairer split?
Or was it really all about Hearts over inflated costs for the division that they find themselves in?....

[Cowden Cowboy]

2 hours ago, badgerthewitness said:

Suggesting grants be means tested is hardly the most selfish incident you'll witness in Scottish football, considering our entire decision making process is based on the indivual desires of our member clubs. 

That would seem to be roughly what democracy is - where individual desires are expressed as votes and the majority wins.  Indeed any selfishness in the system is primarily because full time clubs exercise the majority of the voting power. 

[vikingTON]

11 hours ago, theoriginalhedge said:

As time went on the more you could see a them and us scenario happening with sides being taken on league reconstruction, promotions and relegations etc . It became very apparent that the fans of the full time clubs felt more entitled to guaranteed survival than the part time ones . 

Would these be the same part time clubs who kept a closed shop at the bottom of the fourth tier for decades and still need revived with smelling salts today at the prospect of instating automatic relegation? That's before we even get to 'Uncle Ken' trying to unilaterally shift the pyramid boundary to stop your village social club outfit from finding its true level against Strathspey. 

The sum of your credibility then, in lecturing big, bad full time clubs about self-preservation, is absolutely zero.

[theoriginalhedge]

32 minutes ago, virginton said:

Would these be the same part time clubs who kept a closed shop at the bottom of the fourth tier for decades and still need revived with smelling salts today at the prospect of instating automatic relegation? That's before we even get to 'Uncle Ken' trying to unilaterally shift the pyramid boundary to stop your village social club outfit from finding its true level against Strathspey. 

The sum of your credibility then, in lecturing big, bad full time clubs about self-preservation, is absolutely zero.

Cheers .  Thanks so much for providing the perfect example of my previous post.

Truly an educated , open mind working here. 

[vikingTON]

^^^ verge of tears

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Cheers .  Thanks so much for providing the perfect example of my previous post.

Truly an educated , open mind working here. 

To be fair, it is a bit tiresome when fans of any club bemoan the self-interest of others. I'm not aware of a single club who has made a decision or voted for something that makes their club worse off, hence you get stand offs on issues. Every club has one vote and they'll use it as best they can. I do agree that some fans of certain full time clubs had a sense of entitlement during the talks last year, but I don't think that view is in line with the majority.

It's not like part time clubs don't have fair representation either, of the 7 club chairmen on the SPFL board, 3 of them are from part time clubs. Given there are 24 full time clubs and 18 part time clubs in the national divisions, I'd say that's pretty fair representation. 

[Cowden Cowboy]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

Would these be the same part time clubs who kept a closed shop at the bottom of the fourth tier for decades and still need revived with smelling salts today at the prospect of instating automatic relegation? That's before we even get to 'Uncle Ken' trying to unilaterally shift the pyramid boundary to stop your village social club outfit from finding its true level against Strathspey. 

The sum of your credibility then, in lecturing big, bad full time clubs about self-preservation, is absolutely zero.

It wasn't part time clubs it was full time and part time clubs - don't recall any real effort by the full time clubs trying to bring about a pyramid or end the closed shop over those decades.  Indeed they preferred to cast smaller clubs out and restrict access - hence proposals over the years to reduce the size of the SFL and then the breakaway SPL with its self protecting rules.  Over and above that the Leagues not in the SFL were regional and worst of all the juniors on their own volition wished to more or less sit outside it all thus inhibiting the credibility and standing of the senior game outwith the SFL.