Scottish lower league football locked down for 3 weeks

[jagsfan57]

 
Surely any such vote should have been made at the start of the season before a ball is kicked so everyone knew the ruling if the scenario arose again ? 
 

I don’t disagree that the method of deciding should have been agreed if the season was finished early, but I think it is right that the clubs decide whether to end the season.

[theoriginalhedge]

2 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

 

I don’t disagree that the method of deciding should have been agreed if the season was finished early, but I think it is right that the clubs decide whether to end the season.

 

Yes , the clubs should have been tasked with that at the start of the season. They should have all come to an agreement then when every club was on an even keel. That way no one could be rightly or wrongly accused of cheating the system. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

They should have all come to an agreement 

Are you new?

[theoriginalhedge]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Are you new?

I get you. 

I forgot the words  ...........in a sensible world. 

[roman_bairn]

Yes , the clubs should have been tasked with that at the start of the season. They should have all come to an agreement then when every club was on an even keel. That way no one could be rightly or wrongly accused of cheating the system. 

Absolutely this. There is obviously a real possibility the league will not restart and it would be ridiculous if Falkirk were not promoted given last seasons charade. However I think there’s a real threat that it could be null and void .....

[Jan Vojáček]

12 hours ago, roman_bairn said:

Absolutely this. There is obviously a real possibility the league will not restart and it would be ridiculous if Falkirk were not promoted given last seasons charade. However I think there’s a real threat that it could be null and void .....

I hear you. But, imo, it would be crazy to promote and relegate teams based on 11 completed games out of 27. Especially in a league where one team have only played eight times.

There's no reason why the league shouldn't be able to finish. The final round of fixtures are scheduled for May 1 and with a vaccine being rolled out and the seasonal decline in Covid cases as we get into spring, calling this early would be a decision that would create far more issues than it would solve. Things have been done safely for the most part and clubs (certainly from the games I've been to) are following the protocols very carefully.

Am I optimistic that we'll be back in February? Not really. No. But I can't see any reason not to bump on the final day of the season for a fortnight and play a few weeks of Saturday/Tuesday in April and May. It might compress things down for the playoffs and so require some organisation, but there's definitely a way that it can be done to avoid a farcical situation where teams are relegated/promoted or denied promotion. 

Last year it was a total shock for everyone which excuses the handling of it. Clubs won't be as understanding if that happens again. 

[DA Baracus]

I don't see the issue with the handling of things last season.

Clubs were asked to vote on it, since it is they who hold the power, and so clubs did vote on it. 

I'm sure someone will bleat about the Dundee vote, but remember that an independent review and a legal investigation found that it was fine.

The SPFL don't have the power to make a decision. They asked the clubs for just that before the season began and the clubs refused.

[EFFC1938]

It would be equally ridiculous to promote and relegate teams after playing a few games.

Absolutely this. There is obviously a real possibility the league will not restart and it would be ridiculous if Falkirk were not promoted given last seasons charade. However I think there’s a real threat that it could be null and void .....

[roman_bairn]

It would be equally ridiculous to promote and relegate teams after playing a few games.

I actually don’t disagree. However the top position was hardly a foregone conclusion in League One last season with a point between Falkirk and Raith and an imbalance of fixtures between the teams, with a game between the teams due for the last game of the season.
In my view a principle was set and, as has been stated, voted upon.
As such if the league is called off from here then the same rule should apply unless a precondition was set at the time that this would only apply in future if X games have been completed. I don’t believe any such condition was set....

[roman_bairn]

I don't see the issue with the handling of things last season.
Clubs were asked to vote on it, since it is they who hold the power, and so clubs did vote on it. 
I'm sure someone will bleat about the Dundee vote, but remember that an independent review and a legal investigation found that it was fine.
The SPFL don't have the power to make a decision. They asked the clubs for just that before the season began and the clubs refused.

The point here is that a vote was held last season on similar principles and the top team was promoted. As such now we know that’s the rule, it needs to now apply this season....

[roman_bairn]

I hear you. But, imo, it would be crazy to promote and relegate teams based on 11 completed games out of 27. Especially in a league where one team have only played eight times.
There's no reason why the league shouldn't be able to finish. The final round of fixtures are scheduled for May 1 and with a vaccine being rolled out and the seasonal decline in Covid cases as we get into spring, calling this early would be a decision that would create far more issues than it would solve. Things have been done safely for the most part and clubs (certainly from the games I've been to) are following the protocols very carefully.
Am I optimistic that we'll be back in February? Not really. No. But I can't see any reason not to bump on the final day of the season for a fortnight and play a few weeks of Saturday/Tuesday in April and May. It might compress things down for the playoffs and so require some organisation, but there's definitely a way that it can be done to avoid a farcical situation where teams are relegated/promoted or denied promotion. 
Last year it was a total shock for everyone which excuses the handling of it. Clubs won't be as understanding if that happens again. 

When did we start to apply common sense over self interest in Scottish football ?[emoji846]

[DA Baracus]

2 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

The point here is that a vote was held last season on similar principles and the top team was promoted. As such now we know that’s the rule, it needs to now apply this season....

No, that's not the 'rule'. The precedent set was a vote, not the outcome of the vote. So if it came to it, there would need to be a vote. How that turns out is anyone's guess, but I imagine it would be the same outcome as last season.

[Jan Vojáček]

5 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

When did we start to apply common sense over self interest in Scottish football ?

The league will probably be decided on alphabetical order. Or Premiership clubs will get to vote for who they'd like to see promoted and relegated. That would be a good laugh.

[bairn88]

Very, very damming update by the Stenhousemuir chairman. 

The “meeting“ on Wednesday where all clubs mics were muted and any request to speak were denied. Clubs informed of shutdown at the same time as fans, with no pathway shown to allowing the game to restart and no additional support. 

Clubs should be banding together to oppose this (well, maybe all apart from Brechin). 

[The Moonster]

34 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

The point here is that a vote was held last season on similar principles and the top team was promoted. As such now we know that’s the rule, it needs to now apply this season....

Except no such rule exists. We had the chance to write something into the rules to avoid another debacle and nobody cared. That means any shut down this time will again go to a vote. Falkirk fans are of course disgusted at the way Raith were promoted last year, so it's surprising to see you calling for promotion in even more dubious circumstances.

[bairn88]

4 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Except no such rule exists. We had the chance to write something into the rules to avoid another debacle and nobody cared. That means any shut down this time will again go to a vote. Falkirk fans are of course disgusted at the way Raith were promoted last year, so it's surprising to see you calling for promotion in even more dubious circumstances.

It would be quite spectacular, to be fair, if the season we were 2 points behind the leaders, the leaders were allowed to be promoted, and literally the following season, where we’re 2 points ahead, a vote could be made where the leaders aren’t allowed to be promoted. Incredible consistency and fairness

[roman_bairn]

Except no such rule exists. We had the chance to write something into the rules to avoid another debacle and nobody cared. That means any shut down this time will again go to a vote. Falkirk fans are of course disgusted at the way Raith were promoted last year, so it's surprising to see you calling for promotion in even more dubious circumstances.

Of course it will. And then it’ll be null and void because self interest will always reign over consistent application of the rules.
I think the rule was wrong last season as I do this season. However in SPFL rulebook.....two wrongs make a right....

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, bairn88 said:

It would be quite spectacular, to be fair, if the season we were 2 points behind the leaders, the leaders were allowed to be promoted, and literally the following season, where we’re 2 points ahead, a vote could be made where the leaders aren’t allowed to be promoted. Incredible consistency and fairness

The two situations aren't the same even if they are similar. All clubs had the chance to push for the rules to be altered, I don't remember anyone shouting about it. With no rules in place the only way to settle it fairly is to vote. FWIW, I reckon clubs will vote the same way as last year for much the same reasons - prize money & no hassle with extending contracts. All I'm pointing out is that when the vote went against Falkirk it was a "ridiculous decision" but now that same ridiculous decision will favour you it would be a "ridiculous decision" if it went against you. 

2 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

Of course it will. And then it’ll be null and void because self interest will always reign over consistent application of the rules.
I think the rule was wrong last season as I do this season. However in SPFL rulebook.....two wrongs make a right....

You keep saying rules. There are no rules on this. Which is why we vote. That is consistent even if you don't like the outcome. The self interest line is funny. How did Falkirk vote last year? How do you think Falkirk would vote this year? 

 

[forameus]

29 minutes ago, bairn88 said:

It would be quite spectacular, to be fair, if the season we were 2 points behind the leaders, the leaders were allowed to be promoted, and literally the following season, where we’re 2 points ahead, a vote could be made where the leaders aren’t allowed to be promoted. Incredible consistency and fairness

So if that's not "consistency and fairness" then what is allowing the clubs to vote one season, and then denying them that the year after?

It's a shite situation all round, we got fucked too, but they're not directly comparable.

[Hughsie]

20 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

How did Falkirk vote last year? How do you think Falkirk would vote this year? 

 

I believe the chairman has gone on the record saying the club will push for the season to be completed, even if it needs to be extended into the summer.