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7 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

the general feeling was one of hope that the second wave would be easier managed. 

The option was there but obviously clubs had the same optimistic approach as the general public and  by implementing the measures they did , felt confident to proceed. 

Last time I checked, football clubs were supposed to operate as businesses and not on wishful thinking. There was no commercial case for starting a season BCD in October and then assuming that the situation would be better over the winter months. It was an act of sheer folly to start a season on that basis from the Championship level down, and there were more than enough people who stated this on here at the time.

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I don’t think there was anything wrong with being optimistic and starting the season. I was all for it and would like the season to finish. My gripe is starting with no plan of how it was going to finish, in the worse case scenario.

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9 minutes ago, Thom & Gerry said:

I don’t think there was anything wrong with being optimistic and starting the season. I was all for it and would like the season to finish. 

Unless you're a chief executive of a club as well, then there's a crucial difference between you understandably wanting football to return and actually hiring a squad of players to play out games without any prospect of gate revenue or hospitality income though. It is simply not good enough for people running football clubs to say 'well the general public thought that things might be okay, so who can blame us because our operating model went wrong?'

Edited by vikingTON

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42 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

That was the general perception in summer when the figures fell and the government and public  started to believe that the tier system was a manageable way forward. No one predicticted new strains and certainly no one predicted a nationwide lockdown again. 

This is complete and utter fantasy from start to finish. Everybody knew that a vaccine/treatment was the only way out. Nobody knew, and still nobody knows, how this still very new virus is going to behave. 

You do not operate a business based on what you hope happens. The clubs can shout all they want about governments etc. but they need to take some responsibility. They knew the risks and to say they didn't is completely false. 

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3 minutes ago, virginton said:

Last time I checked, football clubs were supposed to operate as businesses and not on wishful thinking. There was no commercial case for starting a season BCD in October and then assuming that the situation would be better over the winter months. It was an act of sheer folly to start a season on that basis from the Championship level down, and there were more than enough people who stated this on here at the time.

Given the fact that most season ticket holders were willing to renew their tickets after clubs invested in live streaming tends to throw your commercial case out the window.  Away supporters also had the chance to watch their teams and in most cases , more fans tuned in than would have travelled to the matches.  

As well as actually seeing the games , supporters also had the chance to buy merchandise and contribute to sponsorship , which at our club at least has been a tremendous success.   Hospitality revenue was obviously lost but to completely rule out a commercial case for most clubs is wrong. 

  To  deny these clubs the chance to at least try to offer a service on a similar par as the full time clubs shows the obvious contempt that some  hold for part time football. 

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38 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

No-one is trying to trip you up. Clubs were given no guarantee that crowds would be allowed. Many non-league teams took the opportunity to withdraw. League clubs were optimistic inspite of the evidence.

Being able to remember isn't hindsight.

League clubs were optimistic in the procedures they put in place and confident that they could operate with them in place.

I don't see a problem in that.  They certainly didn't proceed blind as was originally suggested. 

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28 minutes ago, an86 said:

This is complete and utter fantasy from start to finish. Everybody knew that a vaccine/treatment was the only way out. Nobody knew, and still nobody knows, how this still very new virus is going to behave. 

You do not operate a business based on what you hope happens. The clubs can shout all they want about governments etc. but they need to take some responsibility. They knew the risks and to say they didn't is completely false. 

Football as a whole is an industry run on the basis of hope.  Queens Park turned full time in the hope of climbing the leagues . A few bad decisions can drastically change the fortunes.

The clubs knew the risks and put procedures in place is what I am saying .  You stated that they went in with their eyes closed which is not true. 

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11 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

To deny these clubs the chance to at least try to offer a service on a similar par as the full time clubs shows the obvious contempt that some  hold for part time football. 

Nobody did that, though. The argument is about planning. Proceeding on a basis of emotion and hope is for the fans, it's not for people running serious operations. Every organisation should factor worst case scenarios into a risk management strategy. I would be very, very interested to see if such a strategy existed. I suspect we both know the answer to that one. 

Our most successful local ex-junior clubs, Pollok, didn't kick off this season. Horrible for everyone involved. Absolutely horrible. However, it was a decision based upon risk and not hope. There was always going to be a Pollok FC in 2021/22.

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18 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Football as a whole is an industry run on the basis of hope.  Queens Park turned full time in the hope of climbing the leagues . A few bad decisions can drastically change the fortunes.

The clubs knew the risks and put procedures in place is what I am saying .  You stated that they went in with their eyes closed which is not true. 

Again, total nonsense. Queen's Park are not crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. There are serious professionals with reputations involved. They will be implementing long term strategies and analysing possible risks at every turn.

If the clubs had put procedures in place to manage the risks, we wouldn't be where we are now. Nobody knew what was going to happen. Everyone went in with their eyes closed. A leap into the unknown and an "ask questions later" attitude if it went tits up. 

Edited by an86

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11 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

League clubs were optimistic in the procedures they put in place and confident that they could operate with them in place.

I don't see a problem in that.  They certainly didn't proceed blind as was originally suggested. 

There was no, or very poor, logic applied to that decision across the board. You could go back and find plenty of negativity about that on this board across all the divisional and general forums.

3 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Football as a whole is an industry run on the basis of hope.  Queens Park turned full time in the hope of climbing the leagues . A few bad decisions can drastically change the fortunes.

The clubs knew the risks and put procedures in place is what I am saying .  You stated that they went in with their eyes closed which is not true. 

Queens Park will end in tears.

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4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Queens Park will end in tears.

Without wanting to stray too far off topic, there's a unique set of circumstances around the situation at QP and the risk is not a substantial one. It exists, of course. Nothing is completely risk free. 

Even without Haughey, our books are healthy and we have assets. We're not Gretna. Although, I understand why folk from the outside with limited knowledge of the inner workings of the club would arrive at that conclusion. 

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Just now, an86 said:

Without wanting to stray too far off topic, there's a unique set of circumstances around the situation at QP and the risk is not a substantial one. It exists, of course. Nothing is completely risk free. 

Even without Haughey, our books are healthy and we have assets. We're not Gretna. Although, I understand why folk from the outside with limited knowledge of the inner workings of the club would arrive at that conclusion. 

I'll soften that. I think there is a ceiling for Queens. If they go beyond that supported by Haughey's money then it'll end in tears. If you keep within what has become the natural aspirations of the club you could be Championship/League 1 regulars.

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2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I genuinely don't know what you've been reading but all the evidence of previous pandemics informed reports I read that a second wave was inevitable.

No... if a proper track and trace system had been put in, borders closed etc.  Look at Taiwan, New Zealand, Vietnam etc.

Edited by EdinburghBlue
Predictive text 🙁

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Just now, EdinburghBlue said:

No... if a proposer track and trace system had been put in, borders closed etc.  Look at Taiwan, New Zealand, Vietnam etc.

But it wasn't and there was no indication there would be other than Johnson and Hancock waffling about a world class service then outsourcing it to local fly by night call centres.

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40 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

 

Queens Park will end in tears.

Tears of joy!

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1 hour ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Given the fact that most season ticket holders were willing to renew their tickets after clubs invested in live streaming tends to throw your commercial case out the window.  Away supporters also had the chance to watch their teams and in most cases , more fans tuned in than would have travelled to the matches.  

The bulk of clubs sold STs on the back of getting fans back in the ground: indeed many pledged that ST holders would get priority access for returning and some Premiership clubs even foolishly attached a guaranteed number of games to attend in person within their sales contract.

Literally nobody was buying or selling an entire season behind closed doors and if the clubs knew today what they could have anticipated but chose to ignore and pretend wasn't happening in the summer, then none of the leagues below the Premiership would have started at all. It is the living definition of the sunk cost fallacy kicking in here.

Quote

To  deny these clubs the chance to at least try to offer a service on a similar par as the full time clubs shows the obvious contempt that some  hold for part time football. 

Oh so a majority of part-time clubs are now in favour of paying for testing and accepting all the consequences of their brickie and plumber players testing positive, given they have zero credible protection from community transmission whatsoever?

Unless that's the case then your bleating about the injustice of an entirely straightforward distinction being made by the authorities can be filed in the bin where it belongs. 

Edited by vikingTON

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19 minutes ago, virginton said:

The bulk of clubs sold STs on the back of getting fans back in the ground: indeed many pledged that ST holders would get priority access for returning and some Premiership clubs even foolishly attached a guaranteed number of games to attend in person within their sales contract.

Literally nobody was buying or selling an entire season behind closed doors and if the clubs knew today what they could have anticipated but chose to ignore and pretend wasn't happening in the summer, then none of the leagues below the Premiership would have started at all. It is the living definition of the sunk cost fallacy kicking in here.

Oh so a majority of part-time clubs are now in favour of paying for testing and accepting all the consequences of their brickie and plumber players testing positive, given they have zero credible protection from community transmission whatsoever?

Unless that's the case then your bleating about the injustice of an entirely straightforward distinction being made by the authorities can be filed in the bin where it belongs. 

no, just replying to your post and your rather blinkered view of part time football. 

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3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

 

Being able to remember isn't hindsight.

When you reach a certain age, it's aspirational. 

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4 hours ago, theoriginalhedge said:

That was the general perception in summer when the figures fell and the government and public  started to believe that the tier system was a manageable way forward. No one predicticted new strains and certainly no one predicted a nationwide lockdown again. 

No offence, but you've made that up. You won't have to look far to find plenty experts in viruses predicting exactly that all summer.

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