Season a write off?

[Andy groundhopper]

Surely it's possible to restart and play beyond the 'cut off' date - the Euro's don't affect the bottom 3 divisions in Scotland, and almost go into next season without having the usual 2/3 months break ? Unless it's dictated by FIFA,UEFA,SFA, to stick to the rules etc. Only an idea.

[EdinburghBlue]

Very angry at the Bobby Madden story this morning.  Why was travel to Greece to referee a domestic game deemed necessary travel?  Why was the group not required to go into a quarantine hotel on return as others are?  Yet again there appears to be a different approach for the ‘elite’ compared to our level of the professional game.

[Elric]

31 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Very angry at the Bobby Madden story this morning.  Why was travel to Greece to referee a domestic game deemed necessary travel?  Why was the group not required to go into a quarantine hotel on return as others are?  Yet again there appears to be a different approach for the ‘elite’ compared to our level of the professional game.

How can a referee be considered an "elite Sportsman"  As far as I know he has a separate job and is not a full time referee so the term "Elite Sportsman" is very dubious.

If our level of football is not started in the next few weeks the chairmen need to meet and act. What exactly I do not know but something needs to be done given that the SG is going to issue a "roadmap". tomorrow.

[The Moonster]

44 minutes ago, Elric said:

How can a referee be considered an "elite Sportsman"  As far as I know he has a separate job and is not a full time referee so the term "Elite Sportsman" is very dubious.

How do you play the sport competitively without a referee?

[Sergeant Wilson]

50 minutes ago, Elric said:

How can a referee be considered an "elite Sportsman"  As far as I know he has a separate job and is not a full time referee so the term "Elite Sportsman" is very dubious.

If our level of football is not started in the next few weeks the chairmen need to meet and act. What exactly I do not know but something needs to be done given that the SG is going to issue a "roadmap". tomorrow.

 

[EdinburghBlue]

4 hours ago, The Moonster said:

How do you play the sport competitively without a referee?

So Greece doesn’t have any referees of its own?

[The Moonster]

11 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

So Greece doesn’t have any referees of its own?

I know nothing of the Greece situation but yer man Elric is arguing a different point. You can't play football without a ref so of course they're considered elite.

Whether or not we should be sending refs to Greece is another matter but I don't really know how that came about.

[Skyline Drifter]

On 21/02/2021 at 05:34, EdinburghBlue said:

There should have been no second wave. Governments across Europe ignored scientific advice and relaxed restrictions - particularly on travel - too quickly. (Research shows that we had effectively eradicated Covid-19 in Scotland, but then reimported it from England and Spain.)  But there were still opportunities later with circuit breakers, which should have been used more widely. Perhaps the problem was that clubs and governing bodies put too much faith in governments. 

Every single epidemiologist of note was confidently predicting a second winter wave even before the first lockdown was released. It's possibly been worse than it should have been, it's maybe not been handled well enough by any Govt. These are political questions. But the idea that "there should have been no second wave" is utter nonsense. A second wave was absolutely foreseeable.

The lower leagues (and I include the Championship in that) probably should never have started and absolutely should have agreed some sort of contingency process for what happened when and if it was stopped after various stages before it did start. That's not the fault of the SPFL though. They asked for permission to set that up. The clubs refused it and preferred to deal with it on an ad hoc basis as last time. They made their bed, they'll now have to lie in it.

[true fan]

Madden - kolliste to sfyrigma ston kolo sas

[Skyline Drifter]

21 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Surely it's possible to restart and play beyond the 'cut off' date - the Euro's don't affect the bottom 3 divisions in Scotland, and almost go into next season without having the usual 2/3 months break ? Unless it's dictated by FIFA,UEFA,SFA, to stick to the rules etc. Only an idea.

Hearts will have players (at least one in Craig Gordon) in the Euros. Anyway, the Championship has no need to play beyond any cut off date. It's (more or less) up to date. There are games floating in hand but that's because Dundee and Inverness can't get their pitch playable in winter, not because of any Covid issue. The lower two divisions could potentially be extended but it's still highly problematic. FIFA will not allow a change in the transfer window again so if you go beyond 9th June you'll be dealing with a scenario where players may leave before the season ends so join other clubs. If you play much later then the idea of a playoff with the Championship for League 1 will need binned.

6 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Very angry at the Bobby Madden story this morning.  Why was travel to Greece to referee a domestic game deemed necessary travel?  Why was the group not required to go into a quarantine hotel on return as others are?  Yet again there appears to be a different approach for the ‘elite’ compared to our level of the professional game.

I have to say I've no idea why UEFA requested, in the middle of a pandemic, that a referee team from Scotland handle a domestic Greek fixture. That makes no sense at all. Some of UEFA's unnecessary actions in a pandemic are a little bizarre. They still have neutral country observers attending every European tie too. Is that really necessary. I accept that having an observer is probably necessary, but I imagine a domestic one could do the job just fine.

There's absolutely no reason they should "quarantine" though. Like it or not is IS elite sport and they are exempt. Same as Rangers didn't have to quarantine on return from Belgium last week. The Leagues would quickly grind to a halt if every football official or player involved in a European tie had to quarantine for 10 days on return.

The SFA refereeing department somehow contriving to let an assistant officiate at Easter Road when he should have been isolating is quite an achievement though. Lest we forget, it didn't make much headlines as we're not important enough, but the Alloa v QoS Championship match 2 weeks ago was delayed almost an hour because the referee managed to turn up at the ground before anyone told him he had to have a Covid test to officiate in the Championship these days and it took more than an hour and a half to get a replacement tested referee to Alloa from Livingston. When they clubs have to dot i's and cross t's in testing and reporting that's more than a bit laughable.

[Dev]

Football is back in England by the end of March.

The first figures announced for the effect of the vaccines on covid are the Scottish ones and, as the SG often gives the impression of wanting to be different in order to justify itself (my view - others will differ!), the timescale for the return of organised outdoor activities will be different - whether earlier or later or whatever - who knows yet!

Hopefully common sense will prevail and football comes back even if subject to the previous protocols for a while.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

9 minutes ago, Dev said:

Football is back in England by the end of March.

The first figures announced for the effect of the vaccines on covid are the Scottish ones and, as the SG often gives the impression of wanting to be different in order to justify itself (my view - others will differ!), the timescale for the return of organised outdoor activities will be different - whether earlier or later or whatever - who knows yet!

Hopefully common sense will prevail and football comes back even if subject to the previous protocols for a while.

What is this utter guff you have posted in multiple threads?

[big al]

It’s expected football in England will return on 29th March. Sturgeon saying Scotland’s easing will be similar to England’s so there’s a potential date.May require 2/3 weeks pre season first though so mid April for games.

Not sure how this works for schedules.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, big al said:

It’s expected football in England will return on 29th March. Sturgeon saying Scotland’s easing will be similar to England’s so there’s a potential date.May require 2/3 weeks pre season first though so mid April for games.

Not sure how this works for schedules.

Well it doesn't. If the lower leagues don't kick a ball until mid April they are as well winding it up now. It gives League 1 about 3 weeks to complete a season in time for playoffs.

However, this announcement for England is about ALL levels of football, including you and me having a kick about down the park. Kids clubs, etc.  It's a positive sign but it really doesn't have any bearing on whether Leagues 1 and 2 might be allowed to start before that. Realistically, if Leagues 1 & 2 are to have any chance of finishing even an 18 games season they'll need to be playing by mid March. 27 games season is already screwed IMO.

[EdinburghBlue]

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Every single epidemiologist of note was confidently predicting a second winter wave even before the first lockdown was released. It's possibly been worse than it should have been, it's maybe not been handled well enough by any Govt. These are political questions. But the idea that "there should have been no second wave" is utter nonsense. A second wave was absolutely foreseeable.

The lower leagues (and I include the Championship in that) probably should never have started and absolutely should have agreed some sort of contingency process for what happened when and if it was stopped after various stages before it did start. That's not the fault of the SPFL though. They asked for permission to set that up. The clubs refused it and preferred to deal with it on an ad hoc basis as last time. They made their bed, they'll now have to lie in it.

Er, no.  Many were arguing that we should have pursued an elimination strategy when we initially had the chance, as was done in Taiwan, New Zealand etc.  This was within Scotland’s grasp, but we reimported Covid-19 from Spain and England in particular, which ignited a second wave.  

But I agree with you on contingency planning.  I think a decent solution would have been to have a temporary structure for one season only with full-time teams that were committed to and could afford full testing regimes playing separately from the semi-professional ones.  But irrespective of structure there should have been an agreement in advance on how many games would be required for a valid outcome, how that would be determined, and what to do if any leagues had to be declared void.

[EdinburghBlue]

3 hours ago, big al said:

It’s expected football in England will return on 29th March. Sturgeon saying Scotland’s easing will be similar to England’s so there’s a potential date.May require 2/3 weeks pre season first though so mid April for games.

Not sure how this works for schedules.

Tiers1 to 5 in England haven’t gone away.  Tier 6 clubs have already agreed to void the season.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

39 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Well it doesn't. If the lower leagues don't kick a ball until mid April they are as well winding it up now. It gives League 1 about 3 weeks to complete a season in time for playoffs.

However, this announcement for England is about ALL levels of football, including you and me having a kick about down the park. Kids clubs, etc.  It's a positive sign but it really doesn't have any bearing on whether Leagues 1 and 2 might be allowed to start before that. Realistically, if Leagues 1 & 2 are to have any chance of finishing even an 18 games season they'll need to be playing by mid March. 27 games season is already 

3 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Er, no.  Many were arguing that we should have pursued an elimination strategy when we initially had the chance, as was done in Taiwan, New Zealand etc.  This was within Scotland’s grasp, but we reimported Covid-19 from Spain and England in particular, which ignited a second wave.  

But I agree with you on contingency planning.  I think a decent solution would have been to have a temporary structure for one season only with full-time teams that were committed to and could afford full testing regimes playing separately from the semi-professional ones.  But irrespective of structure there should have been an agreement in advance on how many games would be required for a valid outcome, how that would be determined, and what to do if any leagues had to be declared void.

You keep harping on about importing Covid -19 from England and Spain. Covid is everywhere. 

[EdinburghBlue]

32 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

 

You keep harping on about importing Covid -19 from England and Spain. Covid is everywhere. 

From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55246112

“It estimated that between 17 July and 30 August, there were 46 "import events" into Scotland - 28 from England, 13 from mainland Europe and four from Asia.”

And from the FT:

Edited February 22, 2021 by EdinburghBlue

[Elric]

4 hours ago, The Moonster said:

I know nothing of the Greece situation but yer man Elric is arguing a different point. You can't play football without a ref so of course they're considered elite.

Whether or not we should be sending refs to Greece is another matter but I don't really know how that came about.

No - I'm stating how ridiculous is it to send our referees to Greece at this time.  Of course we need referees and if they are considered elite then it is to Scotland. Three now isolating because of a derby in Greece. It would have been bad enough if it had been an international and one of them had returned home with a positive test. They then follow this up by allowing someone who has tested positive to officiate at a game a few days later.

[Sergeant Wilson]

26 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Er, no.  Many were arguing that we should have pursued an elimination strategy when we initially had the chance, as was done in Taiwan, New Zealand etc.  This was within Scotland’s grasp, but we reimported Covid-19 from Spain and England in particular, which ignited a second wave.  

But I agree with you on contingency planning.  I think a decent solution would have been to have a temporary structure for one season only with full-time teams that were committed to and could afford full testing regimes playing separately from the semi-professional ones.  But irrespective of structure there should have been an agreement in advance on how many games would be required for a valid outcome, how that would be determined, and what to do if any leagues had to be declared void.

What would've happened after this temporary structure?