Cancel the season?

[Dev]

Not just relevant to the Amateurs:

scottishamateurfootballnews.com/2021/02/12/the-big-amateur-debate-has-the-game-been-harshly-treated/

 

The Big Amateur Debate – Has The Game Been Harshly Treated?

12 FEB 2021SCOTTISH AMATEUR FOOTBALL NEWS

You could have heard a pin drop on Tuesday evening when an Official Social Media post revealed “The Government has today confirmed that they cannot currently commit to return dates for those affected leagues in the coming weeks”, writes Tom Scott.

I have not personally counted the number of Clubs and Officials who would have reacted to that latest update, but I can imagine the comments would have been a mixture of genuine anger and frustration.

Can you blame them? After the March (2020) notification to “cease football with immediate effect”, we have had start-stop-start- and stop again messages right across the board.

Some organisations managed one or more League games – others are holding out to play a reduced number of domestic fixtures – but many have thrown in the towel and aim to concentrate on season 2021-2021….that is if Clubs have not already folded!

Just to set the record straight in certain quarters, this is not just about going to a local park and having a game of football with your pals. No chance – not with over 1000 Clubs (at the last count) in Membership of the Scottish Amateur Football Association.

Talks will continue with all parties in the meantime we have been told, and a further updat is expected by 1st March, “but should not be seen as a proposed re-start day.”

The Physical and Mental Health issues have been a huge cause for concern over many months, and as a neutral observer – I am not involved with any Amateur Football Club – can anyone in authority produce figures that show Scottish Amateur Football Clubs have contributed to the number – increased they keep telling us – of Covid-19 cases?

And will the Government set out in language we all understand “What is their Exit Strategy to Football returning?” From where I stand, the game has been harshly treated!

At considerable expense, dedicated Officials have followed the same Covid protocols and regulations as other organisations who until recently were allowed to train and play.

I heard whispers that due to Clubs not having their own grounds this was part of the risk. Well, actually quite a few have, and maintain their Clubhouse/ Dressing Rooms, so is that not better? In any case, many “for hire” venues throughout the country are all.

Covid compliant. Staff have had their training etc, which actually means everyone needs to follow the rules more than they have already been doing!

Leagues throughout many areas of Scotland have actually been restructured to prevent excessive travelling. It is hardly a level playing field when you feel there is a clear case of discrimination.

OPEN TO DEBATE: Now have YOUR say on the subject of “No Amateur Football.” If YOU are an Official, Manager, Coach or Player, I welcome your comments. Has the Government stance been spot-on from Day One, or could alternative solutions been looked at collectively, constructively and implemented?

* Please remember we do not need opinions which border on legal action.

[santheman]

3 hours ago, Dev said:

Not just relevant to the Amateurs:

scottishamateurfootballnews.com/2021/02/12/the-big-amateur-debate-has-the-game-been-harshly-treated/

 

The Big Amateur Debate – Has The Game Been Harshly Treated?

12 FEB 2021SCOTTISH AMATEUR FOOTBALL NEWS

You could have heard a pin drop on Tuesday evening when an Official Social Media post revealed “The Government has today confirmed that they cannot currently commit to return dates for those affected leagues in the coming weeks”, writes Tom Scott.

I have not personally counted the number of Clubs and Officials who would have reacted to that latest update, but I can imagine the comments would have been a mixture of genuine anger and frustration.

Can you blame them? After the March (2020) notification to “cease football with immediate effect”, we have had start-stop-start- and stop again messages right across the board.

Some organisations managed one or more League games – others are holding out to play a reduced number of domestic fixtures – but many have thrown in the towel and aim to concentrate on season 2021-2021….that is if Clubs have not already folded!

Just to set the record straight in certain quarters, this is not just about going to a local park and having a game of football with your pals. No chance – not with over 1000 Clubs (at the last count) in Membership of the Scottish Amateur Football Association.

Talks will continue with all parties in the meantime we have been told, and a further updat is expected by 1st March, “but should not be seen as a proposed re-start day.”

The Physical and Mental Health issues have been a huge cause for concern over many months, and as a neutral observer – I am not involved with any Amateur Football Club – can anyone in authority produce figures that show Scottish Amateur Football Clubs have contributed to the number – increased they keep telling us – of Covid-19 cases?

And will the Government set out in language we all understand “What is their Exit Strategy to Football returning?” From where I stand, the game has been harshly treated!

At considerable expense, dedicated Officials have followed the same Covid protocols and regulations as other organisations who until recently were allowed to train and play.

I heard whispers that due to Clubs not having their own grounds this was part of the risk. Well, actually quite a few have, and maintain their Clubhouse/ Dressing Rooms, so is that not better? In any case, many “for hire” venues throughout the country are all.

Covid compliant. Staff have had their training etc, which actually means everyone needs to follow the rules more than they have already been doing!

Leagues throughout many areas of Scotland have actually been restructured to prevent excessive travelling. It is hardly a level playing field when you feel there is a clear case of discrimination.

OPEN TO DEBATE: Now have YOUR say on the subject of “No Amateur Football.” If YOU are an Official, Manager, Coach or Player, I welcome your comments. Has the Government stance been spot-on from Day One, or could alternative solutions been looked at collectively, constructively and implemented?

* Please remember we do not need opinions which border on legal action.

You could use the same argument for any sector of business or local community. Fact is it will spread where people come into close contact with each other or travel outwith their own area and its almost impossible to prove definitively where anyone became infected unless they've stayed isolated in one place since the start of the pandemic so the argument that one sector of society should be treated differently from another because there are no figures published to prove otherwise  is nonsense.

[Arthurlie1981]

Not just relevant to the Amateurs:
scottishamateurfootballnews.com/2021/02/12/the-big-amateur-debate-has-the-game-been-harshly-treated/
 
The Big Amateur Debate – Has The Game Been Harshly Treated?
12 FEB 2021SCOTTISH AMATEUR FOOTBALL NEWS
You could have heard a pin drop on Tuesday evening when an Official Social Media post revealed “The Government has today confirmed that they cannot currently commit to return dates for those affected leagues in the coming weeks”, writes Tom Scott.
I have not personally counted the number of Clubs and Officials who would have reacted to that latest update, but I can imagine the comments would have been a mixture of genuine anger and frustration.
Can you blame them? After the March (2020) notification to “cease football with immediate effect”, we have had start-stop-start- and stop again messages right across the board.
Some organisations managed one or more League games – others are holding out to play a reduced number of domestic fixtures – but many have thrown in the towel and aim to concentrate on season 2021-2021….that is if Clubs have not already folded!
Just to set the record straight in certain quarters, this is not just about going to a local park and having a game of football with your pals. No chance – not with over 1000 Clubs (at the last count) in Membership of the Scottish Amateur Football Association.
Talks will continue with all parties in the meantime we have been told, and a further updat is expected by 1st March, “but should not be seen as a proposed re-start day.”
The Physical and Mental Health issues have been a huge cause for concern over many months, and as a neutral observer – I am not involved with any Amateur Football Club – can anyone in authority produce figures that show Scottish Amateur Football Clubs have contributed to the number – increased they keep telling us – of Covid-19 cases?
And will the Government set out in language we all understand “What is their Exit Strategy to Football returning?” From where I stand, the game has been harshly treated!
At considerable expense, dedicated Officials have followed the same Covid protocols and regulations as other organisations who until recently were allowed to train and play.
I heard whispers that due to Clubs not having their own grounds this was part of the risk. Well, actually quite a few have, and maintain their Clubhouse/ Dressing Rooms, so is that not better? In any case, many “for hire” venues throughout the country are all.
Covid compliant. Staff have had their training etc, which actually means everyone needs to follow the rules more than they have already been doing!
Leagues throughout many areas of Scotland have actually been restructured to prevent excessive travelling. It is hardly a level playing field when you feel there is a clear case of discrimination.
OPEN TO DEBATE: Now have YOUR say on the subject of “No Amateur Football.” If YOU are an Official, Manager, Coach or Player, I welcome your comments. Has the Government stance been spot-on from Day One, or could alternative solutions been looked at collectively, constructively and implemented?
* Please remember we do not need opinions which border on legal action.

A couple of points.

1. There is no way that anyone can definitively show where someone caught the virus. The statistics put out from PHS normally note that places where people have said they have visited in the last week before testing positive, hence why during lockdown essential shops and businesses have been the highest mentioned as they are the only things open. I’m always amazed with the amount of business (or in this case sport) who say they are Covid safe and very few people catch it there. We can take all the precautions we want, all it takes is one small things to go wrong for an outbreak to happen.

2. I don’t think football has been treated unfairly if you compare it to other sectors. This whole thing has been unfair and if people think that one sector has been treated worse than others they are wrong. Football has suffered (at the lower levels at least) just as much as the entertainment sector and other sporting sectors. I think it is poor of the writer of the article to suggest otherwise and tbh is quite tone deaf of the current situation.

3. Closing down football was more about the unnecessary travel element. The optics really weren’t good when you were allowing people to travel for the joy of playing football when asking everyone else to stay at home. I get the point about health and mental health. I live in a one bedroom flat, alone, but have found other ways of keeping fit and have found that to have had a massive benefit to my mental health, it’s been tough at times. Football isn’t the only way to keep fit and as much I have missed going to games with my friends and was extremely disappointed that we never got the season underway for the development squad (where I was helping out) I understand that it is for the greater good of trying to get ALL parts of society reopened as soon as possible.

I’ve currently got two friends suffering from Covid. Both younger than me and healthier and both are saying it’s the hardest thing they have ever gone through. I’ve got close friends who have lost family members to this disease. Can people please stop belittling it and trying to down play it. Football will be back and I really miss it but it’s going to take a wee while longer.

[Dev]

16 hours ago, santheman said:

You could use the same argument for any sector of business or local community. Fact is it will spread where people come into close contact with each other or travel outwith their own area and its almost impossible to prove definitively where anyone became infected unless they've stayed isolated in one place since the start of the pandemic so the argument that one sector of society should be treated differently from another because there are no figures published to prove otherwise  is nonsense.

That's not true. Testing and Track and Trace give the lie to that my friend. Don't forget that football, where permitted, has been subject to stringent protocols which have worked.

[Dev]

43 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 

A couple of points.

1. There is no way that anyone can definitively show where someone caught the virus. The statistics put out from PHS normally note that places where people have said they have visited in the last week before testing positive, hence why during lockdown essential shops and businesses have been the highest mentioned as they are the only things open. I’m always amazed with the amount of business (or in this case sport) who say they are Covid safe and very few people catch it there. We can take all the precautions we want, all it takes is one small things to go wrong for an outbreak to happen.

2. I don’t think football has been treated unfairly if you compare it to other sectors. This whole thing has been unfair and if people think that one sector has been treated worse than others they are wrong. Football has suffered (at the lower levels at least) just as much as the entertainment sector and other sporting sectors. I think it is poor of the writer of the article to suggest otherwise and tbh is quite tone deaf of the current situation.

3. Closing down football was more about the unnecessary travel element. The optics really weren’t good when you were allowing people to travel for the joy of playing football when asking everyone else to stay at home. I get the point about health and mental health. I live in a one bedroom flat, alone, but have found other ways of keeping fit and have found that to have had a massive benefit to my mental health, it’s been tough at times. Football isn’t the only way to keep fit and as much I have missed going to games with my friends and was extremely disappointed that we never got the season underway for the development squad (where I was helping out) I understand that it is for the greater good of trying to get ALL parts of society reopened as soon as possible.

I’ve currently got two friends suffering from Covid. Both younger than me and healthier and both are saying it’s the hardest thing they have ever gone through. I’ve got close friends who have lost family members to this disease. Can people please stop belittling it and trying to down play it. Football will be back and I really miss it but it’s going to take a wee while longer.

 

See response to santherman and the protocols for travel.

The new variants is a different situation with very limited science based information as yet so that's why caution is now needed - no argument there.

[Arthurlie1981]

See response to santherman and the protocols for travel.
The new variants is a different situation with very limited science based information as yet so that's why caution is now needed - no argument there.

No one is saying that there wasn’t protocols in place to mitigate (remember that’s the key word here as you can’t remove all risk) the chances of spreading the virus. The point is that when you are asking other people to not travel then how can you justify keeping football at part time level going? While the prevalence of the virus is high you have to cut back on the amount of chances to pass it on. Football at this level (tbh imo all football where it is not full time) is not an essential business.

Now there is an argument in that league 1 full time sides (Falkirk and Partick) are unfairly treated when Arbroath and Alloa are allowed to keep going even though they are part time and I am guessing that’s where the enhanced testing comes in and obviously it was felt the other clubs in league 1 couldn’t afford it.

There is no simple solution but I think to say football has been treated unfairly is just wrong. At least it was given a chance to start when many other sports did not (mainly through their own choice).

[Big Davy Boy]

13 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Now there is an argument in that league 1 full time sides (Falkirk and Partick) are unfairly treated when Arbroath and Alloa are allowed to keep going even though they are part time.

 

Nonsense. Arbroath and Alloa are in the higher league cos theyre better teams

[santheman]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

That's not true. Testing and Track and Trace give the lie to that my friend. Don't forget that football, where permitted, has been subject to stringent protocols which have worked.

Didn't stop players from St Mirren,  Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Hamilton, Celtic and Motherwell  catching it despite stringent testing

That's without mentioning the lower league teams where its not been widely publicised  like one near me whose entire Management team and half their Committee caught it despite following all the guidelines.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by santheman

[Arthurlie1981]

Nonsense. Arbroath and Alloa are in the higher league cos theyre better teams

That’s not my point and I really don’t know why you are claiming that I said they were not better teams when I didn’t even mention that. Go back and read the full post.

I was making a point that I felt all part time football should have been stopped but that the 2 full time teams in league 1 would feel hard done by that 2 part time teams are allowed to keep playing when it is easier to minimise contacts when your a full time team and don’t have players going to and from other work places (if they are working in a Buisness premises at the moment).

It has nothing to do with who is better and who isn’t. Arbroath and Alloa are in the division they are in because they deserve to be.

[Andy groundhopper]

Think the professional leagues have kept going because of the TV deals, and maybe having to pay £ back. They have kept testing players with very low infection numbers, a gamble with taking - they'll say/argue. Say goodbye to this season, and hope we can return for 21/22 in a much healthier state - with ALL clubs in existence.

[Tutankhamen]

Highly possible the paying public might not see a game this year.

[jimbaxters]

2 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Highly possible the paying public might not see a game this year.

As in calendar year?

[Shanner]

3 hours ago, Tutankhamen said:

Highly possible the paying public might not see a game this year.

I reckon we'll see some fans back in grounds next season.

It will all be subject to regulations and rules, etc. but it will be difficult to justify having no fans when the vaccination program will be well on the way to taming covid by then. 

[Andy groundhopper]

Hopefully the forecast of  many adults getting the 2 jabs by next season, will give football a chance to return with fans. Once shops, pubs and schools reopen, along with workplaces, then ALL sports should be given a chance in 21/22. Fingers crossed that EVERY club survives the pandemic.

[Sancho Panza]

WhaT's the most likley outcome folks.

Training mid March, games  start April,play 50 %  games then finish end of May?

Edited February 21, 2021 by Sancho Panza

[FairWeatherFan]

13 minutes ago, Sancho Panza said:

WhaT's the most likley outcome folks.

Training mid March, games  start April,play 50 %  games then finish end of May?

Kennie Young was on the Down the Divisions podcast the other week saying he needs 10 match days to wrap things up at the very least. 6 weeks roughly for the competitive games, couple weeks training. Looking at roughly an 8 week window required. 

[jimbaxters]

Who needs to give the go ahead? SG or SFA?

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Who needs to give the go ahead? SG or SFA?

SG wise the professional exemption still exists. It was the SFA that paused everything below the SPFL Championship and women's football.

[Burnieman]

The season won't now resume until the SG allow it.

[Andy groundhopper]

Be interesting what Boris says tomorrow on the resumption of outdoor sports like golf etc. The quicker that the over 50's get jabbed then I'm more hopeful of football restarting asap. Even though 20/21 has been difficult , I'm sure clubs will accept null and voids  etc  IF they can see a clear restart with fans' income through the gate/bar.