Cancel the season?

[not man of the match]

Eh? they figures mean 6205 extra a year - big diffrence tae me. Beith has less people living there than that.
If clubs are happy to play, players are happy to play then start season again at start April and play everyone once. By april anyone over 50 shouldve been jagged so crowds might ven be let in.

Obviously higher thany of us would like, was just comparing it to the other figures thrown about in here.

[cmontheloknow]

People still think it's all about excess deaths? It's about keeping people out of hospital to allow NHS to function - and that means reducing non-essential human contact. This is said time and again.

[jimbaxters]

36 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

People still think it's all about excess deaths? It's about keeping people out of hospital to allow NHS to function - and that means reducing non-essential human contact. This is said time and again.

Cue the posts about no proof that football contributes to that. You're fighting an uphill battle pal.

[not man of the match]

People still think it's all about excess deaths? It's about keeping people out of hospital to allow NHS to function - and that means reducing non-essential human contact. This is said time and again.

Which will contribute to reducing deaths? It’s all linked in at the end of the day.

[Andy groundhopper]

All depends on what restrictions are relaxed, allow the shops, pubs and schools to reopen (where kids can transmit) then IF enough people are then I'd be hopeful of an August/Sept start with 200-300 crowds at non league level. Any news on when leagues are making decisions ?

[glensmad]

All depends on what restrictions are relaxed, allow the shops, pubs and schools to reopen (where kids can transmit) then IF enough people are [emoji382] then I'd be hopeful of an August/Sept start with 200-300 crowds at non league level. Any news on when leagues are making decisions ?

That depends on what decisions you're referring to ?

[Dev]

20 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Dont think anyone is suggesting having a game on tomorrow or anything. But the scientific experts put the risk with outside events as fairly negligible, there were plenty things which were allowed to be relaxed which have a far bigger impact on transmission but didnt get a look in. 

Sadly, it appears that the SG had made up its' mind about blocking organised outdoor activities when Covid appeared but were unwilling to accept that evidence about such matters  contradicted the policy. This failure to deal with practical realities sadly damaged organised outdoor sports, including football where the SFA had bent over backwards to come up with a framework of protocols which actually worked and were approved by the SG.

Strange how the same protocols which were fine at one time became intolerable at another time. No attempt at an explanation for the SG's Knee-Jerk reaction either. Just pure uneducated, out of date, prejudice. Truly sad.

[Dev]

4 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

People still think it's all about excess deaths? It's about keeping people out of hospital to allow NHS to function - and that means reducing non-essential human contact. This is said time and again.

No. It's about risk assessment not Knee-Jerk reactions. It's about organised outdoor activities being safe when the appropriate protocols are in place and being applied.

If you think that such properly organised activities contributed to the number of hospitalisations, let alone deaths, perhaps you would like to take up this open invitation to come up with the statistics, including sources from within the UK? Check out Track and Trace and Test and Trace. 

[Dev]

3 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

Cue the posts about no proof that football contributes to that. You're fighting an uphill battle pal.

Dead right about that mate so where's the evidence?

 

[jimbaxters]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Dead right about that mate so where's the evidence?

 

In the same place as the evidence about where it does spread.

[Dev]

3 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

In the same place as the evidence about where it does spread.

OK. Let's be clearer. Where is the scientific evidence?

[jimbaxters]

7 hours ago, Dev said:

OK. Let's be clearer. Where is the scientific evidence?

The evidence could not be more unclear on both sides of the spectrum as well you know. The point has been that when the country were being told not to visit family members in other households, you and others felt it was ok to allow teams to travel across the region. That was a folly regardless of how much you wanted your team to play. Shouting for evidence or claiming the SG were prejudiced against football is like howling at the moon under those circumstances.

Edited February 8, 2021 by jimbaxters

[Shanner]

7 hours ago, Dev said:

OK. Let's be clearer. Where is the scientific evidence?

unless you are arguing that it can't be caught outdoors then I'm not sure what will satisfy you here.

do you want someone to conduct a study into lower and non-league covid transmission in order to prove something we already know?

[Killiepiyo]

Thought I’d share what I’ve heard, Anything without testing sports wise is likely to be off until summer time. Despite the good progress of vaccines the new variations of the virus aren’t spreading in Scotland yet to the level we’ve seen in England. That being they spread much easier meaning tightening of the restrictions as we come down the levels. 
 

For me it’s really depressing overall at present and think the majority will have lost people that they know. Something best avoided and as much as I love filming, it’s difficult to justify as absolutely essential in the scheme of things.

Unless the cost of testing comes down I doubt anything lowland league or below is going to continue this season. I hope I’m completely wrong but looking at the overall picture and what I’ve heard I think it’s 2021/22 we’ll all be preparing for.

On a side note it’s been fantastic to see so many clubs improve their grounds ahead of the license situation. When we do get back I think it’s going to be a stunning, exciting and well attended season. That keeps me going, stay safe folks. 

[Dev]

8 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

The evidence could not be more unclear on both sides of the spectrum as well you know. The point has been that when the country were being told not to visit family members in other households, you and others felt it was ok to allow teams to travel across the region. That was a folly regardless of how much you wanted your team to play. Shouting for evidence or claiming the SG were prejudiced against football is like howling at the moon under those circumstances.

Let's stick with what I said then:

"It's about organised outdoor activities being safe when the appropriate protocols are in place and being applied."

That's significantly different from "when the country were being told not to visit family members in other households, you and others felt it was ok to allow teams to travel across the region."

Yes, it is clear that there are many ways by which Covid may be transmitted but to equate what I described with what you say is not accurate.

If you under any doubts please refer back to the BBC article by David Shukman dated 16th January,2021. I'll repeat it below in a separate post.

The point remains that the SG made an initial decision to halt organized outdoor activities. That was understandable but not to revisit the decision would have been worse. They did revisit and agreed what they considered to be appropriate protocols with the SFA. Those should have been introduced earlier.

As I have stated previously the new variant Covid vuruses are another matter but that doesn't excuse the SG from its' previous mis-handling of organised otdoor activities.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Dev
.

[Dev]

From the BBC:

BBC News      Explainers       16^th January, 2021. By David Shukman,   Science editor.

Covid-19: Can you catch the virus outside?

With the risk of catching coronavirus indoors well established, the little allowed contact with friends under lockdown is for outdoor exercise.

But what are the risks when you go for a walk with a friend? And can you catch coronavirus from a jogger, or people sheltering at a bus stop to escape the rain?

What makes the outdoors safer?

Researchers say infections can happen outdoors, but the chances are massively reduced.

Fresh air disperses and dilutes the virus.

It also helps to evaporate the liquid droplets in which it is carried.

On top of that, ultraviolet light from the Sun should kill any virus that's out in the open.

Even so, there are a handful of cases where it's believed that infections did happen outside.

One study found that two men in China talking face-to-face for at least 15 minutes was enough to spread the virus.

So the risks are low but not zero, but what are they?

How close are you to others?

If someone's infected - maybe without realising it because they have no symptoms - they'll be releasing the virus as they breathe, especially if they cough.

Some of that will be carried in droplets, most of which will quickly fall to the ground but could reach your eyes, nose or mouth if you're within 2m (6ft) of them.

So the advice is to avoid being face-to-face if you're that close.

The infected person will also release smaller particles called aerosols.

Indoors, these can accumulate in the air and be a hazard, outside they should rapidly disperse.

How long are you together for?

Walking past someone in the street or having a jogger run by you, means you're close together for a few seconds at most.

Fleeting encounters are highly unlikely to be long enough for enough virus to reach you.

"We don't want people to be terrified of passing each other in the street," says Prof Cath Noakes, a government adviser speaking in a personal capacity.

She says someone would have to cough right at you, and for you to inhale at just the wrong moment, for an infection to happen.

But she also warns of friends spending a long time together outdoors and assuming they're completely safe.

Going for a run with someone and following close behind them for 20 minutes or more, breathing in their slipstream, might be a problem, she says.

"The sad fact is that your greatest risk is from the people you know."

Are you properly out in the open?

Scientists have found that the risks are low in fully open spaces.

But they worry about areas that are not just crowded but also partly enclosed, such as market stalls or bus shelters.

Whenever the air is still, it can become stagnant and contaminated.

It's in environments like narrow pathways or busy queues that government advisers say face coverings may be needed.

Can you catch it from a park bench (or other surfaces)?

If an infected person coughs into their hand and then wipes it on a surface, the virus may survive there for hours.

Researchers in the US found virus on the handles of rubbish bins and the buttons at pedestrian crossings.

They reckon this may have led to infections in the area, though at a relatively low level compared with other ways of spreading the virus.

But in the winter, the virus may last longer in the open.

It thrives in low temperatures - it may be one reason why there have been outbreaks in chilly meat-processing plants.

Added to that, it's the season when your nose runs in the cold, and a common reaction is to wipe it with your hand.

That might raise the chances of surfaces becoming contaminated.

However, many scientists now think that the amount of virus likely to be left on a surface in this way would be minimal, and would disperse within an hour or two.

"The chance of transmission through inanimate surfaces is very small," says Prof Emmanuel Goldman of Rutgers University.

Where are the risks greatest?

All the evidence points to the vast majority of Covid infections happening indoors.

The virus is transmitted through human interaction, especially when people are together for a long period of time.

That means the virus can spread in several different ways.

Either infected droplets can land on people close by, or contaminate surfaces that others touch.

And if rooms are stuffy, tiny virus particles can accumulate in the air and get inhaled.

It's in households where all of this is most likely to happen.

[Burnieman]

22 hours ago, Dev said:

Sadly, it appears that the SG had made up its' mind about blocking organised outdoor activities when Covid appeared but were unwilling to accept that evidence about such matters  contradicted the policy. This failure to deal with practical realities sadly damaged organised outdoor sports, including football where the SFA had bent over backwards to come up with a framework of protocols which actually worked and were approved by the SG.

Strange how the same protocols which were fine at one time became intolerable at another time. No attempt at an explanation for the SG's Knee-Jerk reaction either. Just pure uneducated, out of date, prejudice. Truly sad.

The SFA suspended football at our level, not the SG.

[Shanner]

30 minutes ago, Dev said:

From the BBC:

BBC News      Explainers       16^th January, 2021. By David Shukman,   Science editor.

Covid-19: Can you catch the virus outside?

With the risk of catching coronavirus indoors well established, the little allowed contact with friends under lockdown is for outdoor exercise.

But what are the risks when you go for a walk with a friend? And can you catch coronavirus from a jogger, or people sheltering at a bus stop to escape the rain?

What makes the outdoors safer?

Researchers say infections can happen outdoors, but the chances are massively reduced.

Fresh air disperses and dilutes the virus.

It also helps to evaporate the liquid droplets in which it is carried.

On top of that, ultraviolet light from the Sun should kill any virus that's out in the open.

Even so, there are a handful of cases where it's believed that infections did happen outside.

One study found that two men in China talking face-to-face for at least 15 minutes was enough to spread the virus.

So the risks are low but not zero, but what are they?

How close are you to others?

If someone's infected - maybe without realising it because they have no symptoms - they'll be releasing the virus as they breathe, especially if they cough.

Some of that will be carried in droplets, most of which will quickly fall to the ground but could reach your eyes, nose or mouth if you're within 2m (6ft) of them.

So the advice is to avoid being face-to-face if you're that close.

The infected person will also release smaller particles called aerosols.

Indoors, these can accumulate in the air and be a hazard, outside they should rapidly disperse.

How long are you together for?

Walking past someone in the street or having a jogger run by you, means you're close together for a few seconds at most.

Fleeting encounters are highly unlikely to be long enough for enough virus to reach you.

"We don't want people to be terrified of passing each other in the street," says Prof Cath Noakes, a government adviser speaking in a personal capacity.

She says someone would have to cough right at you, and for you to inhale at just the wrong moment, for an infection to happen.

But she also warns of friends spending a long time together outdoors and assuming they're completely safe.

Going for a run with someone and following close behind them for 20 minutes or more, breathing in their slipstream, might be a problem, she says.

"The sad fact is that your greatest risk is from the people you know."

Are you properly out in the open?

Scientists have found that the risks are low in fully open spaces.

But they worry about areas that are not just crowded but also partly enclosed, such as market stalls or bus shelters.

Whenever the air is still, it can become stagnant and contaminated.

It's in environments like narrow pathways or busy queues that government advisers say face coverings may be needed.

Can you catch it from a park bench (or other surfaces)?

If an infected person coughs into their hand and then wipes it on a surface, the virus may survive there for hours.

Researchers in the US found virus on the handles of rubbish bins and the buttons at pedestrian crossings.

They reckon this may have led to infections in the area, though at a relatively low level compared with other ways of spreading the virus.

But in the winter, the virus may last longer in the open.

It thrives in low temperatures - it may be one reason why there have been outbreaks in chilly meat-processing plants.

Added to that, it's the season when your nose runs in the cold, and a common reaction is to wipe it with your hand.

That might raise the chances of surfaces becoming contaminated.

However, many scientists now think that the amount of virus likely to be left on a surface in this way would be minimal, and would disperse within an hour or two.

"The chance of transmission through inanimate surfaces is very small," says Prof Emmanuel Goldman of Rutgers University.

Where are the risks greatest?

All the evidence points to the vast majority of Covid infections happening indoors.

The virus is transmitted through human interaction, especially when people are together for a long period of time.

That means the virus can spread in several different ways.

Either infected droplets can land on people close by, or contaminate surfaces that others touch.

And if rooms are stuffy, tiny virus particles can accumulate in the air and get inhaled.

It's in households where all of this is most likely to happen.

So you found evidence and it says that you can catch covid outside but you are suggesting it says something else? 

This shite has been done to death and rehashing poorly constructed, factually weak arguments that have already been debunked by the same folk you're arguing with now isn't going to bring football back any faster. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Shanner

[Lobby Dossar]

I can see a scenario where Clydebank and Darvel have lawyers fight it out to see who gets a chance at the playoffs 

 

[Stag Nation]

8 minutes ago, Lobby Dossar said:

I can see a scenario where Clydebank and Darvel have lawyers fight it out to see who gets a chance at the playoffs 

 

That would be a scectacular waste of money. There is an SFA arbitration process for resolving such disputes, and the courts made it very clear to Hearts and their friends last year that they should have used it.