Jim McLean

[ewan14]

7 hours ago, Willie adie said:

The infamous European semi in 1984, 

 

Ralph Milne should have done a great deal better with the chance he had

[The Saintee]

If the auld bugger had his way Duncan Ferguson would still be under contract at Tannadice.

RIP  a true legend of the Scottish game.

 

[HibeeJibee]

I've always felt 1986-87 for Dundee Utd under Jim McLean is perhaps the greatest "what if" in Scottish football. They played 70 competitive games that season - the joint European record - and reached UEFA Cup Final, Scottish Cup Final, League Cup SFs and Forfarshire Cup Final.

Yet they only won the local trophy, and lost the league (which ran to 44 games in those days) by 9pts. So near to being an unparalleled achievement. People complain about heavy schedules nowadays but it was near-relentless:

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I started following Dundee towards the end of the 86/87 season - when United seemed to be homing in on both the UEFA and Scottish Cups. Their Scottish Cup campaign was pretty exciting from what I remember - Forfar were 2-1 up at Tannadice in the QF with seconds left and conceded a pen. They then missed 2 pens in 2 minutes in the replace. United of course played Dundee in the semi at Tynecastle and won a thrilling game 3-2 with Billy Thomson making a string of ridiculous saves. As HJ says I think they just ran out of steam that season. Playing a 70 game season in the days of only having 2 subs to choose from and small first team squads was pretty remarkable in itself.

As others have said, what he achieved at Tannadice was verging on miraculous. Prior to the mid-60s United were well and truly second fiddle in the city and he single-handedly turned them into one of the best sides in europe, a side which would regularly travel to Ibrox and Parkhead fully expecting to win and one which should have won a lot more silverware than it eventually did. United's gain was certainly Dundee's loss as our board's short-sightedness costs us one of the best managers in Scottish football history. There's no question McLean is up there with Stein and Fergie imo.

I remember reading about the 6-1 game and the fines - I think United were 6-1 up against Motherwell with most of the second half left and pissed about for the rest of the game incurring his ire. Also dunno if this is just an urban legend or not, but I'm sure McLean is quote as saying he was so competitive that when he played card with his wife he wouldn't let her go to bed until he was winning. 

RIP.

 

[tamthebam]

28 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

I've always felt 1986-87 for Dundee Utd under Jim McLean is perhaps the greatest "what if" in Scottish football. They played 70 competitive games that season - the joint European record - and reached UEFA Cup Final, Scottish Cup Final, League Cup SFs and Forfarshire Cup Final.

Yet they only won the local trophy, and lost the league (which ran to 44 games in those days) by 9pts. So near to being an unparalleled achievement. People complain about heavy schedules nowadays but it was near-relentless:

They got a dodgy penalty to draw with Forfar at Tannadice in the Scottish Cup. A great what if Forfar had won the game scenario goes like this:

Dundee slaughter Forfar in the Semis and play St Mirren in the Final. Tommy Coyne nets a brace as the Dees bury the jinx of 1910.

A United side having been knocked out the Scottish Cup are fitter when they play Gothenburg and win.

Jocky Scott and Jim McLean are made Joint Dictators for Life as Dundee declares independence.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

16 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

They got a dodgy penalty to draw with Forfar at Tannadice in the Scottish Cup. A great what if Forfar had won the game scenario goes like this:

Dundee slaughter Forfar in the Semis and play St Mirren in the Final. Tommy Coyne nets a brace as the Dees bury the jinx of 1910.

A United side having been knocked out the Scottish Cup are fitter when they play Gothenburg and win.

Jocky Scott and Jim McLean are made Joint Dictators for Life as Dundee declares independence.

I think one of the Forfar players had a pure brainfart and handled a shot on the line. The rest seems feasible though, although Forfar were a tough, tough side through the 80s. We'd stuffed St Mirren 6-3 around that time and probably would have fancied our chances in the final had we got there, as it was in the latter weeks of that season that Coyne and Wright really started to click. I can't also remember how true this is, but both Dundee clubs were seething at playing at Tynecastle with both preferring either Hampden or a coin-toss between Dens or Tannadice. 

[Jimi Shandrix]

My school was chosen to provide the ballboys for the UEFA Cup Final. I was a late replacement for someone who broke their arm. Think there was 10 of us including 3 or 4 Dees. I was in front of the  enclosure housing the Gothenburg fans. It was 3 days after the Cup Final defeat to St Mirren and you could see the players were absolutely out on their feet. We were in the changing room next to the Utd one after the game and you might think wee Jum would have maybe put an arm round his devastated players. Not a bit of it. He was going fucking mental for what seemed like an age. I had a good wee giggle about it at the time but it was definitely a nervous reaction. Genuinely terrifying for a bunch of wee laddies. Some boi. An absolute hate figure for Dees at the time but undoubtedly the biggest mistake the club has ever made letting him go. Truly, we will never see his like again. Rest In Peace you mentalist.

[betting competition]

Oh the memories of Jim McLean and Willie Miller having a set to at half time in an important cup replay at Dens.

[Academically Deficient]

On 28/12/2020 at 01:46, betting competition said:

Oh the memories of Jim McLean and Willie Miller having a set to at half time in an important cup replay at Dens.

Did Jim disagree with some of Willie's refereeing decisions?

[Detournement]

On 27/12/2020 at 23:43, Jimi Shandrix said:

My school was chosen to provide the ballboys for the UEFA Cup Final. I was a late replacement for someone who broke their arm. 

[Jacksgranda]

On 27/12/2020 at 23:21, Day of the Lords said:

I started following Dundee towards the end of the 86/87 season - when United seemed to be homing in on both the UEFA and Scottish Cups. Their Scottish Cup campaign was pretty exciting from what I remember - Forfar were 2-1 up at Tannadice in the QF with seconds left and conceded a pen. They then missed 2 pens in 2 minutes in the replace. United of course played Dundee in the semi at Tynecastle and won a thrilling game 3-2 with Billy Thomson making a string of ridiculous saves. As HJ says I think they just ran out of steam that season. Playing a 70 game season in the days of only having 2 subs to choose from and small first team squads was pretty remarkable in itself.

As others have said, what he achieved at Tannadice was verging on miraculous. Prior to the mid-60s United were well and truly second fiddle in the city and he single-handedly turned them into one of the best sides in europe, a side which would regularly travel to Ibrox and Parkhead fully expecting to win and one which should have won a lot more silverware than it eventually did. United's gain was certainly Dundee's loss as our board's short-sightedness costs us one of the best managers in Scottish football history. There's no question McLean is up there with Stein and Fergie imo.

I remember reading about the 6-1 game and the fines - I think United were 6-1 up against Motherwell with most of the second half left and pissed about for the rest of the game incurring his ire. Also dunno if this is just an urban legend or not, but I'm sure McLean is quote as saying he was so competitive that when he played card with his wife he wouldn't let her go to bed until he was winning. 

RIP.

 

That's how I remember it, maybe even well in to the 70s they were still regarded as the "other" team in Dundee, although they were both much of a muchness by then.

That all changed after Dundee's relegation in 1975-76 and their failure to immediately bounce back, although speaking as someone who grew up with Dundee being the big Dundee team and who left Scotland in 1973 I still get a bit puzzled when I see Dundee flaffing around in the Championship rather than challenging at the top of the Premiership, it just doesn't seem right to someone of my generation.

 

 

[Academically Deficient]

23 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

That's how I remember it, maybe even well in to the 70s they were still regarded as the "other" team in Dundee, although they were both much of a muchness by then.

That all changed after Dundee's relegation in 1975-76 and their failure to immediately bounce back, although speaking as someone who grew up with Dundee being the big Dundee team and who left Scotland in 1973 I still get a bit puzzled when I see Dundee flaffing around in the Championship rather than challenging at the top of the Premiership, it just doesn't seem right to someone of my generation.

 

 

If you ever come back you'll find many other surprising changes

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

27 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

That's how I remember it, maybe even well in to the 70s they were still regarded as the "other" team in Dundee, although they were both much of a muchness by then.

That all changed after Dundee's relegation in 1975-76 and their failure to immediately bounce back, although speaking as someone who grew up with Dundee being the big Dundee team and who left Scotland in 1973 I still get a bit puzzled when I see Dundee flaffing around in the Championship rather than challenging at the top of the Premiership, it just doesn't seem right to someone of my generation.

We've had an almost ceaseless turnover of absolute fucking idiots in the boardroom since the late 60s. 

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, Academically Deficient said:

If you ever come back you'll find many other surprising changes

 

The fact that on my infrequent visits to Pittodrie since we seemed to be playing either Hibs or Dundee has probably coloured my memory somewhat.

 

[Academically Deficient]

3 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

We've had an almost ceaseless turnover of absolute fucking idiots in the boardroom since the late 60s. 

Saddam Hussein's lawyer was my favourite. 

[Granny Danger]

10 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

We've had an almost ceaseless turnover of absolute fucking idiots in the boardroom since the late 60s. 

I know/knew four former Dundee FC directors and would concur.

Dundee have been very unfortunate with some of the people at board level.

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Just now, Academically Deficient said:

Saddam Hussein's lawyer was my favourite. 

GDS 

Whilst an extreme example, he didn't really have a huge amount of decision-making power as far as i remember, he was mainly a media-whore gobshite. I've probably missed a few out but here's a quick run down of the more notable nutters during my time as a fan:

• Angus Cook - eventually done for fraud involving frozen chicken products. Also a massive Celtic fan.
• Andrew Drummond - notable for being punched in his office by the above. I also vaguely recall some cross-dressing/fight/drunk incident in the papers
• Ron Dixon - Lost interest. Built a greyhound track and wanted to build an 8000 seater stand where the Derry is, with a bridge over Dens Road to an ice rink. 
• The Marrs - Took a massive gamble and almost completely finished the club. Basically set the club back 20+ years for 2 top six finishes and a shite cup final. See also aforementioned links to nutters like GDS, Arkan and various other dodgy individuals
• Calum Melville - See above. Been involved in various alleged frauds I believe

There are a few others, not to mention the various backstabbings when the fans group were in the boardroom. 

Basically a near non-stop shambles for decades. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

I know/knew four former Dundee FC directors and would concur.

Dundee have been very unfortunate with some of the people at board level.

 

Come to think of it, I'm sure Frank Esposito was involved with us at one point. He is/was a massive arab 

[Granny Danger]

3 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Come to think of it, I'm sure Frank Esposito was involved with us at one point. He is/was a massive arab 

Don’t know him. From your list, I know wee Angus and I knew Ron Dixon.  Dixon was an absolute conman.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

Don’t know him. From your list, I know wee Angus and I knew Ron Dixon.  Dixon was an absolute conman.

Frank had a number of catering outlets throughout the city - from memory:

The Golden Fry which became the Metropole, the Cafes at the old DRI and Ninewells, as well as shops in Dunholm Road and the top of Charleston Drive. I used to work for him an age ago. He was actually a sound boss in general but I'm fairly sure he was acquainted with some dodgy characters to say the least. He was a huge arab and I think possibly a United sponsor for a bit. I also recall he wasn't a huge fan of Eddie Thompson (this was way before ET took over at Tannadice).