coprolite Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 hours ago, aDONisSheep said: I agree there is a slight difference, but both are robbing the rest of us. Look at it another way, one may be stealing the parcel off your front step and the other is breaking into your garage. There's a slight difference, but at the end of the day, they are both thieves and it's the punishment that defines the difference. One of the problems that Greece has was that a large proportion of the population didn't pay their fucking taxes. It grips my tits, when people try to find excuses for not declaring incomes. We have a progressive tax system for a reason, it's not up to individuals to decide on their own system. Yours aDONis OT strictly, but related, I was speaking to a tax specialist from EY in Greece. Up until very recently where a company was subject to a tax investigation, the company being investigated would have to engage an approved private firm to do it. Firms that found things wrong didn't get a lot of work. Individuals were barely checked at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 22 hours ago, Suspect Device said: How the hell did a thread about a WEALTH tax come down to petty arguing over whether some minimum wage waiting tables should pay tax on tips? It always does. Any time the subject of increasing taxation on the rich, it inevitably devolves into finger-pointing about minimum wage employees not declaring absolute buttons to the taxman, or benefit scroungers cheating the public purse out of relatively minuscule amounts of money. Oh, and people on six-figure incomes declaring, "well, I'm not rich - I refuse to pay a single penny extra!" They must think we're absolute idiots. And they may have a point. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, BFTD said: It always does. Any time the subject of increasing taxation on the rich, it inevitably devolves into finger-pointing about minimum wage employees not declaring absolute buttons to the taxman, or benefit scroungers cheating the public purse out of relatively minuscule amounts of money. Oh, and people on six-figure incomes declaring, "well, I'm not rich - I refuse to pay a single penny extra!" They must think we're absolute idiots. And they may have a point. You'd have to say, when you see an army of working class people marching off to vote for Boris and Rishi, it's a very successful tactic. Edited January 13, 2021 by Gordon EF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 24 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: We're very much biased by what's right in front of our faces so to speak. So if I see someone in my town with a fancier car than mine, I want them to have a car that's as crap as mine, rather than wanting my car to be as nice as theirs. If I hear about some millionaire living in Monaco driving a Bugatti, that triggers less of a response in me than seeing Tam driving about in an M3 BMW. Government and media know this. That's so fucking weird. Not saying you're wrong at all, but I just don't understand it. I take it this is the thing British celebrities always complain about - "people here want to tear you back down to their level". Always sounded like bleating nonsense from egotists who didn't feel they were getting their arse kissed enough, but maybe some of them have a point. There's a breakdown in logic here somewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Thag's always been a c**t though. Grok reckons that he's been at it with Bairnardo's missus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 No I think you should endeavour to point out your rage every time you leave a tip. If your round comes to £9.80 in the pub and you say keep the change, make sure you point out to the server that only 16p of that is actually for you, the other 4p is for the taxman.What happens if you say to the barman/woman ‘and have one yourself’. Would they only be allowed to have 80% of the drink and then have to send the other 20% to HMRC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 4 hours ago, BFTD said: It always does. Any time the subject of increasing taxation on the rich, it inevitably devolves into finger-pointing about minimum wage employees not declaring absolute buttons to the taxman, or benefit scroungers cheating the public purse out of relatively minuscule amounts of money. Oh, and people on six-figure incomes declaring, "well, I'm not rich - I refuse to pay a single penny extra!" They must think we're absolute idiots. And they may have a point. tbqfh i'd be all for having the personal allowance at a higher rate than it is so i dont really care if delivery drivers/waiting and bar staff/taxi drivers pocket up to 100% of their tips without the tax man getting a whiff of it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 hours ago, MixuFruit said: I don't actually think it's a uniquely British thing. We're creatures that evolved to survive in groups of a few tens to maybe a hundred folk while avoiding getting eaten by sabre toothed tigers. This only works if we all get a fair share of the mammoth we just killed. If I see Thag with a nicer fur pelt than me I'm going to want to know if he cheated to get it and I'll bash his face in with a rock if he has. I don't care about Zug who lives in a tribe over the mountains because there's no harm to the collective chances of my tribe surviving if he does the same thing as Thag. It's hard wired to have a bigger emotional reaction to objectively less important examples of unfairness as long as they are something physically closer to us, unfortunately. Quality post. Felt like I was there. Thag's a p***k. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 What happens if you say to the barman/woman ‘and have one yourself’. Would they only be allowed to have 80% of the drink and then have to send the other 20% to HMRC. I was actually going to suggest that as well. Hector does look like a closet Alchy right enough, proper massive nose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONisSheep Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 I love a good display of ignorance accompanied with a fallacious straw-man. So here we go... Every day is a school day. Tax is payable on 'cash' transactions, so if the barman/waitress etc is offered a drink and takes a drink, it is not taxable. If they take the value of the drink as cash, it is taxable (but exempt from NIC). Further to this, in regard to service charges. If they are compulsory (say when you book for a big party, they attract both Tax and NIC), however if the service charge is discretionary (most cases), then it is only taxable. Now I understand that nobody likes to be called a thief, particularly when they think that their particular law breaking has no victim. I'm just pointing out that you are breaking the law and when you cast your ire at those further up the food chain, you've weakened your argument. Personally I don't think it's difficult to do the right thing and pay your taxes. Yours, here endeth the lesson. aDONis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Love when someone makes an argument that is maybe technically correct but marks you out as an arsehole. Aspiring to be Steve Buscemi in Reservoir Dogs. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONisSheep Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 13 hours ago, NotThePars said: Love when someone makes an argument that is maybe technically correct but marks you out as an arsehole. Aspiring to be Steve Buscemi in Reservoir Dogs. Fixed it for you. Yours Mr Pink 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 20 hours ago, Dunfermline Don said: What happens if you say to the barman/woman ‘and have one yourself’. Would they only be allowed to have 80% of the drink and then have to send the other 20% to HMRC. They don’t have to deduct the tax at source. That would be silly. They should keep a record of the value of all gifts including non cash gifts which derive from each employment and include them on a tax return after the end of the year. Except tips collected by the employer which do have to go through PAYE. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 You can't say anything about murderous Colombian drug cartels cos your neighbour smokes the occasional joint m9. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 The hospitality workers who are fleecing the public purse out of all those undeclared tips are actually spending that cash and keeping the wheels of the economy moving. If anything we're the real wealth creators. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) It's also 2020, we shouldn't be using hypocrisy as a measure of virtue. That's literally how the right try and shut down any criticism of them pillaging the planet. I have no idea why someone nominally on the left would give any credence to that unless they had zero ability to think beyond a tedious theoretical or false equivalency that doesn't take into account the material impact or circumstances. Edited January 14, 2021 by NotThePars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Furiously demanding that the barista I've just chucked a couple of quid at immediately phones HMRC to declare it, simply to allow me to call everyone a hypocrite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONisSheep Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Gordon EF said: You can't say anything about murderous Colombian drug cartels cos your neighbour smokes the occasional joint m9. Nice one; fallacy of both exaggeration and straw man. In fact I might even be doing you a disservice, because I think there is also a bit of a 'fallacy of false dilemma' in there. (HAT TRICK). Bravo. Yours aDONis -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, aDONisSheep said: Nice one; fallacy of both exaggeration and straw man. In fact I might even be doing you a disservice, because I think there is also a bit of a 'fallacy of false dilemma' in there. (HAT TRICK). Bravo. Yours aDONis You're a fallus. Spoiler Only joking. I really couldn't care less about any of this. Edited January 14, 2021 by Gordon EF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I am rather amazed that nobody's posted this yet. There could be youngsters out there who haven't seen this film. Won't somebody think of the children? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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