Falkirk v Peterhead - 05/12/20

[gav-ffc]

27 minutes ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

When we're at home, we should never, ever play only one striker up front. Its a fecking nonsense. Don't care if we're playing the Bigots, Jambos, or Fifers, and certainly not anyone in League One.  FFS, its no more than a lily-livered admission of passive, unadventurous, square-ball football.   Discuss.  

More strikers = more goals of course.

[Newbornbairn]

What's wrong with big lump to win knockdowns and wee nippy guy to score? 

[bairn88]

9 minutes ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

Yeah, but God knows we're not 'Liverpool or literally countless other top European clubs'. We're not very good, remember?  We can't play like them.  And several shitty managers in recent seasons have subjected us to passive, unadventurous, square-ball football.  Its at the root of our current abysmally poor status in the game, no?  (We should be far more assertive at TFS, was my actual point).  

We are not, but your point seems to suggest that any “shit” (eg our level) team can only be assertive and good to watch if they play 2 up top. That’s ludicrous 

[Marshmallo]

39 minutes ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

When we're at home, we should never, ever play only one striker up front. Its a fecking nonsense. Don't care if we're playing the Bigots, Jambos, or Fifers, and certainly not anyone in League One.  FFS, its no more than a lily-livered admission of passive, unadventurous, square-ball football.   Discuss.  

This has to be a wind up

[ShaggerG]

At the moment we don't have a striker that looks like scoring regularly, so I wouldn't be averse to playing one at top because I think an extra midfielder in there would give us more goals, as things stand. Different when Keena gets back.

I'd be tempted to play Leitch as support for Dowds because he actually looks like he might score when he gets a decent chance, unlike Sammon or Francis. Ideally, it would be Miller up front but I assume he couldn't last a full 90?

[ThroughtheTurnstiles]

Peterhead pulled off a few decent results this season, but will this be too much of an ask against a Falkirk side who are starting to motor... 

 

[MrDust]

1 hour ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

When we're at home, we should never, ever play only one striker up front. Its a fecking nonsense. Don't care if we're playing the Bigots, Jambos, or Fifers, and certainly not anyone in League One.  FFS, its no more than a lily-livered admission of passive, unadventurous, square-ball football.   Discuss.  

I am not a fan of 1 up top tho with Farid it worked and Higgy in behind, Morrison could do the Higgy role but no one is even 50% close to the Farid role.

We should not be going 1 up top tho against anyone at home in this league, Id perhaps not go as far as everyone in Scotland but a lot depends on the factors of the game and players able to play the system of 1 up top.

I think if we had went all out versus Rangers, it wouldve added at least  2 more goals, still look forward not back.

I hope we can knock in a few goals in this game but Id take 1-0 victories in every game till the end of the season, we just need to get out of this league full stop. Id really love us to go unbeaten at home for the full season, with it being in league 3 and lesser games, surely is more than doable. 

 

[Bluegrass Bairn]

45 minutes ago, bairn88 said:

We are not, but your point seems to suggest that any “shit” (eg our level) team can only be assertive and good to watch if they play 2 up top. That’s ludicrous 

Sigh... where did you get that from? That's not my point at all. 

Its about mobility and movement, and linking the play.  Over the last few years, when we've tried to play that way we don't support a lone striker well enough. Too isolated, too easily knocked off the ball, too easily dis-possessed.  Its been painful to watch. Nothing at all to do with any other team, or their style of play,  which may well work for them and those 'countless other top European sides' - where a lone nine or false nine isn't playing with no other teammate within 20 yards.  

And by the way Marsh, its not a wind-up. Far from it. Don't tell me your heart didn't sink a little when you saw us line up with a lone striker at home to Stranraer or Forfar last season, or at home to Alloa/QoS/Morton the season before. Shitty tactics, mostly resulting in an absolute borefest. And relegation.  

[Marshmallo]

That's the tactics which cause that though as you say in your post. One up front by itself isn't the issue.

[wee_bairn]

3 minutes ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

Sigh... where did you get that from? That's not my point at all. 

Its about mobility and movement, and linking the play.  Over the last few years, when we've tried to play that way we don't support a lone striker well enough. Too isolated, too easily knocked off the ball, too easily dis-possessed.  Its been painful to watch. Nothing at all to do with any other team, or their style of play,  which may well work for them and those 'countless other top European sides' - where a lone nine or false nine isn't playing with no other teammate within 20 yards.  

And by the way Marsh, its not a wind-up. Far from it. Don't tell me your heart didn't sink a little when you saw us line up with a lone striker at home to Stranraer or Forfar last season, or at home to Alloa/QoS/Morton the season before. Shitty tactics, mostly resulting in an absolute borefest. And relegation.  

That boring football is more down to playing strategy and the players at your disposal. 4-5-1 is effectively 4-3-3 when attacking. It would provide our top goal scorer, Callumn Morrison, a lot more freedom to play with a midfield 3 able to protect him whilst defending. With Dowds/Sammon supported by Connelly, Alston and Morrison I think it looks far more dangerous than any combination of Dowds, Sammon and Francis. The dynamic will obviously change with Keena back in the fold but until then I'd rather play our best 11 players available and work with a formation that accommodates them.

[MrDust]

1 hour ago, bairn88 said:

Ah yes, Liverpool and *checks notes* literally countless other top European clubs who use 1 up front and their notoriously passive, unadventurous square-ball football.

Not saying one up top is the answer. But if we did play it I really hope it’s not Sammon. He just looks so far away from ever scoring again tbh 

Liverpool and countless other teams dont play 1 up top tho, a 3 pronged attack with one leading and generally is a top 3

Dumbarton twice (Lister and Nade) and ourselves with Farid are probably the only budget versions of the 1 up top that I think worked well and effective. 

For me its all about the personel and support from whatever the formation behind and its rare for budget versions to work, Ray McKinnon his whole managerial career has tried to shoehorn it into every club he has managed. I still laugh at his failure at UTD playing it, turned to 2 up top and it started to turnaround albeit failure in the playoffs. He then reverted back to 1 up top following season and got sacked. I laughed less when he did it with us

[Nedelko]

This idea that playing with one striker is necessarily defensive is a myth peddled by folk that don't actually understand football. 4-2-3-1 can be more offensive than 4-4-2 with the right personnel and mentality

Dunno how anyone can look at Connolly/Telfer/Morrison supporting a striker with Alston running from deep and think 'f**k sake we've parked the bus'

[MrDust]

Peterhead will go 1 up top against us, like the majority if not all teams that visit the TFS for a reason and its not in an attacking sense

[Nedelko]

Liverpool and countless other teams dont play 1 up top tho, a 3 pronged attack with one leading and generally is a top 3
Dumbarton twice (Lister and Nade) and ourselves with Farid are probably the only budget versions of the 1 up top that I think worked well and effective. 
For me its all about the personel and support from whatever the formation behind and its rare for budget versions to work, Ray McKinnon his whole managerial career has tried to shoehorn it into every club he has managed. I still laugh at his failure at UTD playing it, turned to 2 up top and it started to turnaround albeit failure in the playoffs. He then reverted back to 1 up top following season and got sacked. I laughed less when he did it with us

Partick Thistle won the championship with Doolan up front on his own supported by a 3. Myth

[MrDust]

57 minutes ago, Nedelko said:

1 hour ago, MrDust said:

Liverpool and countless other teams dont play 1 up top tho, a 3 pronged attack with one leading and generally is a top 3
Dumbarton twice (Lister and Nade) and ourselves with Farid are probably the only budget versions of the 1 up top that I think worked well and effective. 
For me its all about the personel and support from whatever the formation behind and its rare for budget versions to work, Ray McKinnon his whole managerial career has tried to shoehorn it into every club he has managed. I still laugh at his failure at UTD playing it, turned to 2 up top and it started to turnaround albeit failure in the playoffs. He then reverted back to 1 up top following season and got sacked. I laughed less when he did it with us

Partick Thistle won the championship with Doolan up front on his own supported by a 3. Myth

They played 3 at that back that season which was more the feature for me, I cant fully recall the attacking option but I know it wasnt 1 up top as we know it at lower league level

Doolan wasnt even their top goalscorer and he wasnt even 2nd top scorer

Edited December 4, 2020 by MrDust

[Anthony Fitzgerald]

I didn’t mean for my comment to end up like this.

One up front with the right player up front and around them is absolutely fine.

Will be interesting to see what M&M go for tomorrow.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

1 minute ago, Trump said:

I didn’t mean for my comment to end up like this.

One up front with the right player up front and around them is absolutely fine.

Will be interesting to see what M&M go for tomorrow.

A very Trump-esque non-apology imvho

[ShaggerG]

1 hour ago, MrDust said:

Liverpool and countless other teams dont play 1 up top tho, a 3 pronged attack with one leading and generally is a top 3

Dumbarton twice (Lister and Nade) and ourselves with Farid are probably the only budget versions of the 1 up top that I think worked well and effective. 

For me its all about the personel and support from whatever the formation behind and its rare for budget versions to work, Ray McKinnon his whole managerial career has tried to shoehorn it into every club he has managed. I still laugh at his failure at UTD playing it, turned to 2 up top and it started to turnaround albeit failure in the playoffs. He then reverted back to 1 up top following season and got sacked. I laughed less when he did it with us

Liverpool play with everyone up front!

[NavyBlueArmy1876]

I wouldnt be opposed to 4-2-3-1 in principle, shitey coaches like Pressley and McKinnon have given it a bad name in Scotland imo. The 4-4-2 has generally been quite effective for us this season though and especially with Connolly and Keena getting back to fitness (and our lack of attacking fullbacks) I think we'll stick with it. 

[Bluegrass Bairn]

50 minutes ago, Nedelko said:

This idea that playing with one striker is necessarily defensive is a myth peddled by folk that don't actually understand football. 4-2-3-1 can be more offensive than 4-4-2 with the right personnel and mentality

Dunno how anyone can look at Connolly/Telfer/Morrison supporting a striker with Alston running from deep and think 'f**k sake we've parked the bus'

Maybe you do understand football better than me. Who knows. But you're not reading what I wrote, or you're being deliberately flippant.  

I'm suggesting Falkirk haven't done well playing only one up top in recent years because we haven't supported the striker well enough, or quickly enough, or with enough mobility from midfield, leaving our one guy far too isolated and rendering much of our attacking threat impotent, ponderous, and therefore easy to defend against. Given the level of unhappiness on P&B in recent seasons about the overall standard of football we've served up, I'd have thought that was something you might see as a factor in our demise.  And incidentally I'm not peddling myths about the highbrow tactics of Liverpool or any other top European team, or even their superstar players who can switch effortlessly from 4-2-3-1 to 4-4-2 to 3-5-1-1,  just reflecting on some recent historical deficiencies in our own team.   

Oh, and I'm delighted to see Connolly, Morrison, and Alston supporting Dowds, or hopefully Keena before too long, because it shows signs that we're progressing this season - getting better at getting forward quicker, into better positions, and carrying more of a threat.  Duh! The first part of your last sentence actually supports my point - better support for the striker -  whereas the 'park the bus' comment does you no credit.   Time to move on.