Celtic's Next Permanent Manager

[craigkillie]

I'm including the qualifiers. They didn't lose a lot of games but somewhat stumbled their way through WC qualifying despite a fairly kind group. Their away record was abysmal.

The FFA chucked big money at a private jet back from Honduras for the play-off second leg while their opponents had a 24 hour journey, and that was probably the difference between success and failure. That was after scraping past Syria in extra time in the previous round.

His biggest achievement was winning the Asian Cup, but even that only required one really big result, which was the win over South Korea in the final. That was with home advantage too.

He clearly did what was expected of him and more in the job, but I didn't find them a good team to watch.

[Highland Capital]

8 hours ago, Nadroj said:

Jesus Christ that reporter. What a p***k. 

To be fair Craig Foster has become a big human rights/anti-racism/refugee advocate in the last couple of years so goes down as a good guy in my book.  That programme the interview was from was a good watch as well - was on SBS on a Sunday afternoon and was like a big in-depth MOTD/Football Focus hybrid but the older fellow died a few years ago.  They also both hated Terry Butcher.  

One thing on Postecoglou - he managed Australia at the World Cup.  Now that might not sound like a big deal, but Australia almost always go down the foreign manager route.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Highland Capital

[Jacky1990]

Any manager who says they have a philosophy they wont deviate from should sound alarm bells ringing.

Styles of play take time to develop. Even Pep and Klopp took years to fully implement their style on City and Liverpool respectfully. Some of Celtic's biggest games of the season are in less than two months time and there will be an expectation they hit the ground running.

He might be a great coach, but he strikes me as potentially right man, wrong time. Surely the time for this appointment would have been while Rangers* were in the seaside leagues or toiling back in the Premiership.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Tin pot appointment. Timmy will be wanting him out by October.

Lampard would have been more interesting.

[Empty It]

The Celtic board really are showing they're content with being king of the diddies with no interest whatsoever with competing in Europe. Tin pot club.

[Lurkst]

Celtic fan called into Clyde 1 there suggesting Billy Davies 

[gannonball]

4 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Celtic fan called into Clyde 1 there suggesting Billy Davies 

And how was Tommy Sheridan?

[Jacky1990]

2 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Tin pot appointment. Timmy will be wanting him out by October.

Lampard would have been more interesting.

Im not sure its a tin pot appointment. An insanely risky one aye, but not sure its tin pot.

Not getting Eddie Howe's backroom staff certainly is though.

f**k Lampard. All you'd hear about is Lampard v Gerrard and shite da jokes about "aww, they couldn't play in the same midfield but can they manage in the same city". f**k that.

[SlipperyP]

On 31/05/2021 at 06:36, The_Kincardine said:

Nah.  PLG was universally hailed as a masterstroke and rightly so - given what we knew about him.

Much as I detest Scotland's media they were found 'Not guilty, M''lord' wrt PLG.

I believe you're correct to an extent, however, as we know he wasn't one of the press lovies (go out for a pint with), therefore, to get an insight of what was happening within was hindered.  This, leaving them with 'senior' players from the squad to do the talking for the club.  We know what happened then.

Results didn't help to be sure.

The press all over the world I'd expect are the same when an outsider comes into their league, he is not on their contact list, it's hard for them to then write stories, what do you do....writeup some shite from second hand voices.  I just think the Scotch press is a tad worse.

[FortescueFotheringhamSmyth]

20 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I see the Times are reporting that Postecoglou is underqualified for the job in terms of UEFA licensing. You have to question what their recruitment team are up to - surely actually being qualified to take up the job would be an essential requirement before you actually spoke to someone.

Maybe he'll be allowed some form of dispensation, but it seems completely bonkers when there are presumably loads of equally experienced guys out there who require less hassle. I can only presume their desire to cosy up further to the City group is more important to them.

As others have said, UEFA might want to make that a sticking point, but they cannot really do it. He will have qualifications that are grudgingly accepted as equivalent. Coaches who have not coached in Europe obviously won't have the UEFA pro licence. Even if they've won a World Cup, a couple of Copa Americas and half a dozen domestic titles in Argentina or Brazil. What does the UEFA pro licence course cost nowadays? £7,000 or so? Nice screw for those running it. The idea that it's even moderately more advanced than previous coaching courses run by national FA's is ridiculous... and I personally know one manager, an ex-pro, with lots of domestic silverware at a reasonable level who failed a top-grade national coaching course twice while he was winning things! 

[wastecoatwilly]

14 hours ago, Empty It said:

The Celtic board really are showing they're content with being king of the diddies with no interest whatsoever with competing in Europe. Tin pot club.

Pretty sure Celtic have European football up to Christmas in a worse case scenario. 

[Guest TheJTS98]

I understand the issue that Ange takes time to build to success and the concern that Celtic fans and the media etc wouldn't give that time. But there's an equal consideration that it would be a wise cultural shift for Celtic to embrace the idea that building solidly can lead to a better long-term outcome.

In the great scheme of things - despite the media shrieking otherwise - it's not really a huge club-defining issue whether Celtic win the league next season. They'll win it again soon, and they'll win it again loads of times. They got into this mess by embracing too much short-term thinking.

Rangers survived not winning anything in Gerrard's first couple of seasons and now look stronger than anyone expected.

I'm not saying they will or won't win it next year, there's loads of factors that go into that. But I don't think it's a wise thing to have as a defining factor in who to hire. Celtic have a lot to sort out in the infrastructure of the club, regardless of who gets the job.

Edited June 1, 2021 by TheJTS98

[AJF]

21 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

I understand the issue that Ange takes time to build to success and the concern that Celtic fans and the media etc wouldn't give that time. But there's an equal consideration that it would be a wise cultural shift for Celtic to embrace the idea that building solidly can lead to a better long-term outcome.

In the great scheme of things - despite the media shrieking otherwise - it's not really a huge club-defining issue whether Celtic win the league next season. They'll win it again soon, and they'll win it again loads of times. They got into this mess by embracing too much short-term thinking.

Rangers survived not winning anything in Gerrard's first couple of seasons and now look stronger than anyone expected.

I'm not saying they will or won't win it next year, there's loads of factors that go into that. But I don't think it's a wise thing to have as a defining factor in who to hire. Celtic have a lot to sort out in the infrastructure of the club, regardless of who gets the job.

I think you're right for the most part here in that Celtic need to think longer-term. The issue the club faces with this approach is that over the course of the last 4/5 years, the fanbase has developed a sense of entitlement on the back of a period of sustained success and I don't think the majority will settle for another season like the one we just had even if there are signs that they are planning longer term.

If you then add in the fact that the league winners for the coming season gain automatic Champions League group stage qualification and the riches that brings, then there is another element of urgency added into the mix.

[Guest TheJTS98]

8 minutes ago, AJF said:

I think you're right for the most part here in that Celtic need to think longer-term. The issue the club faces with this approach is that over the course of the last 4/5 years, the fanbase has developed a sense of entitlement on the back of a period of sustained success and I don't think the majority will settle for another season like the one we just had even if there are signs that they are planning longer term.

If you then add in the fact that the league winners for the coming season gain automatic Champions League group stage qualification and the riches that brings, then there is another element of urgency added into the mix.

Yeah, it's clearly better to win it than not, and CL money would be an advantage. But we've seen spells of both clubs being in the CL over the years at different times, and it's not a knock-out blow to the other.

Rangers' finances are somewhat up for grabs as well, so it's unclear that the money would simply see them move away from Celtic for years to come.

Celtic made an absolute fortune from Rodgers having them in the group stage two years running, and here they are playing second fiddle three years later.

You're right about the fans. And neither club could ever convince 100% of supporters to be fully behind a patient rebuild. But that's what PR departments and careful messaging from the club are for. Celtic should be in the press making a big splash of every change they make in terms of recruitment strategy, youth development, sports science etc. It's about building a picture.

Also, people can ultimately see what's in front of them. And if there's signs of life on the pitch, that buys an element of goodwill.

[wastecoatwilly]

47 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

They got into this mess by embracing too much short-term thinking.

Can you explain where this short-term thinking exists?
Being successful for a long period doesn't suggest short term thinking.

[AJF]

4 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Can you explain where this short-term thinking exists?
Being successful for a long period doesn't suggest short term thinking.

I'd suggest the appointment of Lennon, seemingly in a spur of the moment shared shower, despite many having serious reservations about his ability in the hope that he could see Celtic over the 10IAR line was short-term thinking. I don't believe anyone would've appointed Lennon with the view that he would be the man to lead Celtic long-term.

He was a stop gap appointment after Rodgers left which turned out to be a longer stop gap than most people would've expected.

A £4m season long loan deal for Shane Duffy is maybe another example.

[Guest TheJTS98]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Can you explain where this short-term thinking exists?
Being successful for a long period doesn't suggest short term thinking.

Where do you want to start with short-term thinking in the Lawwell era?

You could mention the cost-cutting that saw them only build a reduced-size indoor training pitch at Lennoxtown, making it essentially useless for match preparation when it's needed.

Or the failure to invest in a global recruitment network while in a position of complete dominance at home and with no viable challenger. Their recruitment is miles behind similarly-sized and even smaller clubs.

Or having Lawwell act as defacto DoF instead of being a modern club and getting an expert in to do the job.

Or hiring Neil Lennon as full-time manager on the assumption that he'd be just good enough to win a TIAR that is of little genuine consequence instead of having an actual vision for what they want to achieve and who they need to get them there. The fact that they only hired him after winning the cup confirms that this was essentially done on a whim and confirms a total lack of strategy.

Short-termism and short-term balance sheet success has dominated at Celtic in a time when they should have been investing in building the club. They're way behind where they should be as a result.

[DMCs]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Pretty sure Celtic have European football up to Christmas in a worse case scenario. 

No, it is possible for you to not make any group stage but just seems quite unlikely. Would require losing every tie you enter.

[Dons_1988]

Just now, DMCs said:

No, it is possible for you to not make any group stage but just seems quite unlikely. Would require losing every tie you enter.

That would be the worst case scenario. Not what he said. 

[wastecoatwilly]

23 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

Where do you want to start with short-term thinking in the Lawwell era?

You could mention the cost-cutting that saw them only build a reduced-size indoor training pitch at Lennoxtown, making it essentially useless for match preparation when it's needed.

Or the failure to invest in a global recruitment network while in a position of complete dominance at home and with no viable challenger. Their recruitment is miles behind similarly-sized and even smaller clubs.

Or having Lawwell act as defacto DoF instead of being a modern club and getting an expert in to do the job.

Or hiring Neil Lennon as full-time manager on the assumption that he'd be just good enough to win a TIAR that is of little genuine consequence instead of having an actual vision for what they want to achieve and who they need to get them there. The fact that they only hired him after winning the cup confirms that this was essentially done on a whim and confirms a total lack of strategy.

Short-termism and short-term balance sheet success has dominated at Celtic in a time when they should have been investing in building the club. They're way behind where they should be as a result.

I can get the emphasis on the 10 whether we fall off a cliff winning it or not,Lawwell is leaving so does the short term thinking leave with him?
Every manager has a shelf life, Celtic had to lose the league at some point Lennon was that man.
Celtic are still in a position of strength on the park and off the park.