Tier 4 - Restrictions.

[Dev]

20 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

So you haven't actually read the full Times article on on-field transmission to understand context, but you're happy to post it here, there and everywhere claiming it proves it's safe to restart fitba, along with your usual sly dig at the SG.  Glad that's cleared up.

Openly clear that I (nor you apparently?) have read the full article.

There is only the SG (regardless of political Party) that makes the coronavirus decisions in Scotland. I am sure that you understand that.

If say one or more of  Labour/Cons/Lib-Dems/Greens were calling the shots they'd receive the same scrutiny from you and others, including me, but they aren't in that position.

Are you suggesting that any SG should be subject to public scrutiny but not if it is one particular Party? That's how you are coming across.  Do you really care more about politics than what's happened in one particular sector i.e. organised outdoor activities? 

[Burnieman]

Openly clear that I (nor you apparently?) have read the full article.
There is only the SG (regardless of political Party) that makes the coronavirus decisions in Scotland. I am sure that you understand that.
If say one or more of  Labour/Cons/Lib-Dems/Greens were calling the shots they'd receive the same scrutiny from you and others, including me, but they aren't in that position.
Are you suggesting that any SG should be subject to public scrutiny but not if it is one particular Party? That's how you are coming across.  Do you really care more about politics than what's happened in one particular sector i.e. organised outdoor activities? 

You're posting articles you haven't read and then using them as evidence to hold the SG to account. Are you serious?

I want to read the article so I know what it says before coming to any conclusion.

Maybe you should do the same.

[Che Dail]

17 minutes ago, Dev said:

Hm! Opinion based upon opinion though?

Not really - is mostly based on probability.

 

[Burnieman]

https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/sport/football/east-of-scotland-season-looks-to-be-over-says-dundonald-bluebells-general-manager-3158406

 

 

 

[oldandround]

3 hours ago, Burnieman said:

 

 

You're posting articles you haven't read and then using them as evidence to hold the SG to account. Are you serious?

I want to read the article so I know what it says before coming to any conclusion.

Maybe you should do the same.

 

Burnie. 

For a few years you have been on the absolutely correct side of every argument on here in relation to dragging the dinosaur juniors into this century and promoting the EOSFL  / Lowland at every turn.

Just concerned that you've dug yourself into a bit of a hole here and getting a little bit LTL about this.

The risk of footballers inflating the COVID pandemic is low.  Not nil, but low.  Its unlikely that football would have any real effect on the R rate now (was correct to stop in Jan - undoubtedly) but it might just be time to climb out from under the parapet and find a way for fit young men to get back to sport.  

There is always a risk in life.  I'm wondering if now is the time to accept the small one that is inherent now in lower league football?  No point is discussing vaccine etc here as everyone has an opinion, all equally valid. 

There is of course one extremely prudent argument against resumption of football and that is "but I'm a Brechin fan...."

 

Not a closet one are you......

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, oldandround said:

Burnie. 

For a few years you have been on the absolutely correct side of every argument on here in relation to dragging the dinosaur juniors into this century and promoting the EOSFL  / Lowland at every turn.

Just concerned that you've dug yourself into a bit of a hole here and getting a little bit LTL about this.

The risk of footballers inflating the COVID pandemic is low.  Not nil, but low.  Its unlikely that football would have any real effect on the R rate now (was correct to stop in Jan - undoubtedly) but it might just be time to climb out from under the parapet and find a way for fit young men to get back to sport.  

There is always a risk in life.  I'm wondering if now is the time to accept the small one that is inherent now in lower league football?  No point is discussing vaccine etc here as everyone has an opinion, all equally valid. 

There is of course one extremely prudent argument against resumption of football and that is "but I'm a Brechin fan...."

 

Not a closet one are you......

I would say the issue is they both have a point here. On-field transmission is low, but the off-field transmission is the same as everywhere else. Like seemingly everyone I haven't read the article but going past the headline you've got:

Quote

Detailed tracing of players who have tested positive for the virus has been carried out in all the sports but in every case the transmission was put down to off-the-field contact, such as in meeting rooms, cars and indoor activities.

So stopping non-league level is more of a "stop the spread" concern rather than the "health of the athletes" one.

[Burnieman]

2 hours ago, oldandround said:

Burnie. 

For a few years you have been on the absolutely correct side of every argument on here in relation to dragging the dinosaur juniors into this century and promoting the EOSFL  / Lowland at every turn.

Just concerned that you've dug yourself into a bit of a hole here and getting a little bit LTL about this.

The risk of footballers inflating the COVID pandemic is low.  Not nil, but low.  Its unlikely that football would have any real effect on the R rate now (was correct to stop in Jan - undoubtedly) but it might just be time to climb out from under the parapet and find a way for fit young men to get back to sport.  

There is always a risk in life.  I'm wondering if now is the time to accept the small one that is inherent now in lower league football?  No point is discussing vaccine etc here as everyone has an opinion, all equally valid. 

There is of course one extremely prudent argument against resumption of football and that is "but I'm a Brechin fan...."

 

Not a closet one are you......

My only point is that people should not read a newspaper headline and then make assumptions.   I've not read the full article and therefore have no idea what it contains, neither has Dev, so how can it be used as any sort of evidence for a resumption of football?

I've already said on here that I want the season to resume with promotion and relegation, but it has to be done safely (you'll know why in our case if you read my posts).

[GordonS]

It's surprisingly easy to forget what a c*nt this virus is. A friend of a friend is in intensive care with Covid just now, taken off the ventilator yesterday. Last week the police had to break down her door to let the ambulance crew in, she was unconscious on the floor. If they'd been a day or two later she'd probably have died. Mid-40s, decent fitness, no known underlying conditions.

If this report says what is being said here then brilliant, get the nets up. But when we're this close to having every adult vaccinated I don't see any benefit in taking unnecessary risks, so I'd like to be absolutely sure and not getting the info third hand via a paywalled article and (no offence) a guy on a message board. 

[Dunfermline Jag]

On 05/03/2021 at 16:55, Cyclizine said:

LFT misses about 60% of asymptomatic cases in the real world and a nearly a third of those with high viral loads who are the most infectious. The mass use of LFT is not without controversy and arguably they shouldn't be used for mass testing despite the government push.

Why would PCR use inflate the number of cases? It is more sensitive and specific than LFT. A positive in an asymptomatic person is highly likely to be a true positive and a negative a true negative.

PCR tests don't look for active, transmittable virus at all, but for traces of coronavirus dna. That means they can pick up on people who have previously had covid but recovered: previously had covid but had no symptoms: have current exposure to the covid virus but not enough to be ill or infectious and people who had a cold or flu caused by a different coronavirus.

WHO recommends that PCR tests should only be used to confirm  a disease in someone already showing symptoms and not as the sole diagnostic tool. The NHS switched away from them because so many staff who were not infectious were having to self isolate.

Any way, we now have further scientific confirmation of what Jason Leitch was saying months ago - football is  a low risk activity. There should be no need for testing at all.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Dunfermline Jag

[Burnieman]

Non contact training in groups of upto 15 allowed from Friday.

[Ginaro]

12 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Non contact training in groups of upto 15 allowed from Friday.

Has that been brought forward or were the dates for both non-contact and also contact sport for adults (or children) not mentioned in the initial roadmap a couple of weeks ago? 

[Burnieman]

4 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Has that been brought forward or were the dates for both non-contact and also contact sport for adults (or children) not mentioned in the initial roadmap a couple of weeks ago? 

If they were I must have missed it.  I'm not aware of a date for contact training.

[Ginaro]

11 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

If they were I must have missed it.  I'm not aware of a date for contact training.

Looking at the 23rd February announcement, it said non-contact 12-17 yo on 15th March but nothing about adults. So in that sense the non-contact adult date has been brought forward.

Can only hope the return to levels system on 26th April would mean contact sports will be allowed again, if not before.

[Auld duffer]

West have drawn a line in the sand

[Pyramidic]

This article relating to George Fraser, the LL Chairman, highlights the growing administrative problem if / when the  season is curtailed.

"I've got a duty of care to the teams at the bottom of the Lowland League as well and we need to decide the fairest way to do things there as well.

"We need to know from the East of Scotland and South of Scotland League [who play in the tiers below the Lowland] what they are doing at that end of the table, so there is a lot of balls being juggled at the moment.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/rangers-celtic-colts-proposal-lower-23665068

[Burnieman]

Latest SFA advice, looks to me we wont see any games before 26th April at the earliest.  If that is accurate, I think the season is gubbed.

 

18 years and above

The Scottish Government and sportscotland guidance regarding 18 years and above who are permitted to participate in outdoor non-contact group activity with full Level 4 guidance can be found here. We would urge everyone to adhere to the following guidance:  All activity must be non-contact, ensuring physical distancing is in place at all times before, during and after activity takes place. All activity must be organised within your own Local Authority area and players are not permitted to travel to neighbouring authorities to participate, as per Scottish Government travel restrictions.  It is recommended that activity is limited to twice a week and for a maximum of 60 minutes per session.  All group activity must consist of a maximum of 15 players and officials (two appropriate PVG officials for SYFA) and all activity must contain a COVID Officer and First Aider per 1/4 of a pitch. Key Dates/Next Stages The following are indicative dates that will allow clubs to start to prepare for future activity and over the coming weeks we will continue to engage with the Scottish Government and sportscotland to gain more clarification on specific areas.

5 April  Stay at home: Stay at home requirement removed

26 April  Strategic (Levels) Framework: Return to a levels system, which includes regional variation based on data. Further detail will be published in as soon as it is available.  Sport:The levels system will support the phased re-opening of sport. The detail of what activity will be permitted in each level will be confirmed this month. We once again thank all our clubs, volunteers and players for their continued patience as we start to progress over the coming weeks towards a safe return to football. At this time, we would encourage everyone to maintain daily physical activity within their own household or by following the Scottish Government ‘meeting others outdoors’ guidance.

[Truthteller]

If there is to be some sort of resumption and the EOSFL decide to try and ensure there is promotion and relegation over half a season with every club playing each other once, then for half the season to be completed league games would have to start on Saturday 12th June as all games have to be completed by 30th June.

i understand that this possible scenario was one of three put forward at a league meeting.

[Ali_Wee_Jag]

If there is to be some sort of resumption and the EOSFL decide to try and ensure there is promotion and relegation over half a season with every club playing each other once, then for half the season to be completed league games would have to start on Saturday 12th June as all games have to be completed by 30th June.
i understand that this possible scenario was one of three put forward at a league meeting.

Playing each club once! Dunbar have played several clubs home and away and a few clubs we’ve not played at all. We’ve played the team at the top of the league 8 times and second place twice. I’m not sure reaching any “half way stage” would be a fair state of play.

[Burnieman]

If there is to be some sort of resumption and the EOSFL decide to try and ensure there is promotion and relegation over half a season with every club playing each other once, then for half the season to be completed league games would have to start on Saturday 12th June as all games have to be completed by 30th June.
i understand that this possible scenario was one of three put forward at a league meeting.

Playing until halfway is reached and then settling on PPG is one option, and probably the only viable one left. This method was agreed at the start of the season for this eventuality.

However we need to be playing in April, not June. The WoS will null and void the league if there is no chance of full contact training by Easter, I would expect the EoS will broadly follow that timeline.

I don't think we'll be kicking a ball before end of April looking at the SFA update. Maybe more clarity on Tuesday.

[Burnieman]

Playing each club once! Dunbar have played several clubs home and away and a few clubs we’ve not played at all. We’ve played the team at the top of the league 8 times and second place twice. I’m not sure reaching any “half way stage” would be a fair state of play.

Only 3 games out of the 90-odd need to be scratched from the record. One of them is Musselburgh v Blackburn, not sure what the other two are. That will then take us back to no club having played the same club twice, then you play out the remaining matches to get to 17 games each, then PPG. Not ideal, not great, but that's what was agreed.