Tier 4 - Restrictions.

[Auld Heid]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I still think we did the right thing getting the season up and running. Unfortunately we were never able to progress to getting fans back in the ground. 
 
Agree it’s time to bring it to a close now though and we try again next season.

Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But not if you then continue to ignore the obvious.

We started in October and at no point since then has continuing made sense.

Even now there is no immediate benefit of restarting.

[Dev]

48 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But not if you then continue to ignore the obvious.

We started in October and at no point since then has continuing made sense.

Even now there is no immediate benefit of restarting.




 

You could try showing how organised outside activities hurt anyone, as a starter?

[AlanCamelonfan]

8 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing.

But not if you then continue to ignore the obvious.

We started in October and at no point since then has continuing made sense.

Even now there is no immediate benefit of restarting.




 

Got to disagree their I think it did make sense from a mental health point of view. It only doesnt make sense from.the scottish governments scared to come out your front door too watch. 

We could have been back now imo. I actually think the mistake was starting in october it should have been started before that. They looked to professional game too much and to me they are totally different 

[Crow]

2 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Got to disagree their I think it did make sense from a mental health point of view. It only doesnt make sense from.the scottish governments scared to come out your front door too watch. 

We could have been back now imo. I actually think the mistake was starting in october it should have been started before that. They looked to professional game too much and to me they are totally different 

Agree. It was a tough one to take watching non league games down south going ahead in August with crowds.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 hour ago, Crow said:

Agree. It was a tough one to take watching non league games down south going ahead in August with crowds.

Even without crowds. Live streaming was better than nothing but you had people like auld heid and gordon complaining about it. Its ridiculous. The Testing is flawed anyway so it isn't necessarily the answer. Furlough being extended until September is going to play right into Nicola Sturgeons hands

[Dev]

At the end of the day it is extremely disappointing the way that football below the Premier has been handled but that responsibility lies with the SG. The SFA came up with protocols which have worked but you would think that they were giving rise to all sorts of problems. I've asked on P&B for examples but none of the staunch SG supporters here have come up with any answers/examples. You can be sure that if there had been cases of covid from organised outdoor activities they would have been shouting it from the roof tops.

I have contacted the appropriate public bodies for data and we shall see what that brings. However, I shall not be holding my breath waiting for a reply.

The SG seems to have "Stars in their Eyes" when they deal with the Big Clubs and their Multi-Millionaires but ordinary folk who organise and take part in football beneath the Premier seem to be treated as inferiors. Maybe the MSPs have become too wealthy with fat salaries, expenses and pension schemes and they have simply lost touch. Seems that way to me. 

[Burnieman]

At the end of the day it is extremely disappointing the way that football below the Premier has been handled but that responsibility lies with the SG. The SFA came up with protocols which have worked but you would think that they were giving rise to all sorts of problems. I've asked on P&B for examples but none of the staunch SG supporters here have come up with any answers/examples. You can be sure that if there had been cases of covid from organised outdoor activities they would have been shouting it from the roof tops.
I have contacted the appropriate public bodies for data and we shall see what that brings. However, I shall not be holding my breath waiting for a reply.
The SG seems to have "Stars in their Eyes" when they deal with the Big Clubs and their Multi-Millionaires but ordinary folk who organise and take part in football beneath the Premier seem to be treated as inferiors. Maybe the MSPs have become too wealthy with fat salaries, expenses and pension schemes and they have simply lost touch. Seems that way to me. 

.

[craigkillie]

58 minutes ago, Dev said:

At the end of the day it is extremely disappointing the way that football below the Premier has been handled but that responsibility lies with the SG. The SFA came up with protocols which have worked but you would think that they were giving rise to all sorts of problems. I've asked on P&B for examples but none of the staunch SG supporters here have come up with any answers/examples. You can be sure that if there had been cases of covid from organised outdoor activities they would have been shouting it from the roof tops.

I have contacted the appropriate public bodies for data and we shall see what that brings. However, I shall not be holding my breath waiting for a reply.

The SG seems to have "Stars in their Eyes" when they deal with the Big Clubs and their Multi-Millionaires but ordinary folk who organise and take part in football beneath the Premier seem to be treated as inferiors. Maybe the MSPs have become too wealthy with fat salaries, expenses and pension schemes and they have simply lost touch. Seems that way to me. 

Aye, I'm sure it was all the multi-millionaires at Killie and Motherwell that really swung their thinking.

[Deanburn Dave]

Come on Dev, don't you realise that "Scottish Football"= The Old Firm.

[Burnieman]

So only those leagues who can carry out PCR testing can resume.   SFA pushing SG to accept Lateral Flow Tests as a compromise for the remaining leagues, no idea when any sort of progress will be made on that part.  Apparently more news in a couple of weeks.

Lateral Flow Testing still comes at a cost, and more questions of how the process would work, but that seems to be where we are at the moment.

[Dev]

If this kit is OK'd at Government level how quickly could it be brought in for use at Pyramid matches i.e. on players, club, league and match officials? Would need sponsorship or could SFA or Leagues or Clubs fund it somehow ?

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/new-covid-test-trialled-by-hearts-aims-to-get-fans-back-inside-full-stadiums-sooner-3153656

 

The new BioSure kit works by testing saliva with the outcome confirmed within minutes and verified via a smartphone app.

A negative result would represent a supporter’s passport into crowded events, and Hearts are keen to utilise the method if government officials approve it.

Testing kits can be mass produced through WSA Healthcare, whose subsidiary FOYS Medical sponsor Hamilton Academical’s ground.

WSA’s chief executive Chris McKendrick explained that the method would allow thousands to self-test for the virus and could get stadiums back to capacity next season.

Each test costs between £10 and £13.50, whereas PCR tests currently used by football clubs range from £60 upwards.

“The beauty of the BioSure test is because of its accuracy and price, it’s doable. It has already been CE approved, now we just need government approval,” said McKendrick.

“Utilised properly, this system would ensure everyone around about you has been shown to be virus-free, so you could fill up to capacity again. It’s exciting.

“Our job now is to get out there and speak to various businesses and try and get people back. Some of the lower-league clubs aren’t playing just now and they’ve had to fork out on expensive PCR testing during the week.

“If this is much more affordable and we can help them do it, that’s a big plus.

“I believe some of this could help now. Realistically, if we can get government approval, I don’t see why we can’t be there for the start of next season with confidence.

“We have links with football through sponsoring Hamilton and we have links with other clubs including Ann. So if we can get the support of the clubs and everybody else, hopefully we can push it a bit quicker.”

The app can be used for testing prior to large-scale events like sports matches and concerts. “The PocDoc app will be more useful if you were going to a stadium with 60,000 people or 70,000 at a rugby match at Murrayfield,” added McKendrick.

“That has all your details so there’s no way of cheating it. You do your test, you get our result within 15 minutes, that will be uploaded for you and you get a confirmation.

“Effectively that’s your pass to get into the stadium. We’re now in a confident position and we’re reaching out to people. We can provide it in vast quantities and, if people want it, we can provide it very soon.”

Decisions on who would fund the tests have yet to be made. “If you go to a local place you may get a PCR test for £60-80, if you go to an airport or have to quarantine you’re hearing well over £100,” said McKendrick. “We think it’s going to be between £10-13.50, depending on volume.

“Who pays for that? The fan? The club? Can it be subsidised by government? These are the things we are speaking to people about. There is obviously a big desire to get the economy going and that will only happen if we get people back into stadiums like Tynecastle.”

[Burnieman]

If this kit is OK'd at Government level how quickly could it be brought in for use at Pyramid matches i.e. on players, club, league and match officials? Would need sponsorship or could SFA or Leagues or Clubs fund it somehow ?
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/new-covid-test-trialled-by-hearts-aims-to-get-fans-back-inside-full-stadiums-sooner-3153656
 
The new BioSure kit works by testing saliva with the outcome confirmed within minutes and verified via a smartphone app.
A negative result would represent a supporter’s passport into crowded events, and Hearts are keen to utilise the method if government officials approve it.
Testing kits can be mass produced through WSA Healthcare, whose subsidiary FOYS Medical sponsor Hamilton Academical’s ground.
WSA’s chief executive Chris McKendrick explained that the method would allow thousands to self-test for the virus and could get stadiums back to capacity next season.
Each test costs between £10 and £13.50, whereas PCR tests currently used by football clubs range from £60 upwards.
“The beauty of the BioSure test is because of its accuracy and price, it’s doable. It has already been CE approved, now we just need government approval,” said McKendrick.


“Utilised properly, this system would ensure everyone around about you has been shown to be virus-free, so you could fill up to capacity again. It’s exciting.
“Our job now is to get out there and speak to various businesses and try and get people back. Some of the lower-league clubs aren’t playing just now and they’ve had to fork out on expensive PCR testing during the week.
“If this is much more affordable and we can help them do it, that’s a big plus.
“I believe some of this could help now. Realistically, if we can get government approval, I don’t see why we can’t be there for the start of next season with confidence.
“We have links with football through sponsoring Hamilton and we have links with other clubs including Ann. So if we can get the support of the clubs and everybody else, hopefully we can push it a bit quicker.”
The app can be used for testing prior to large-scale events like sports matches and concerts. “The PocDoc app will be more useful if you were going to a stadium with 60,000 people or 70,000 at a rugby match at Murrayfield,” added McKendrick.
“That has all your details so there’s no way of cheating it. You do your test, you get our result within 15 minutes, that will be uploaded for you and you get a confirmation.
“Effectively that’s your pass to get into the stadium. We’re now in a confident position and we’re reaching out to people. We can provide it in vast quantities and, if people want it, we can provide it very soon.”
Decisions on who would fund the tests have yet to be made. “If you go to a local place you may get a PCR test for £60-80, if you go to an airport or have to quarantine you’re hearing well over £100,” said McKendrick. “We think it’s going to be between £10-13.50, depending on volume.
“Who pays for that? The fan? The club? Can it be subsidised by government? These are the things we are speaking to people about. There is obviously a big desire to get the economy going and that will only happen if we get people back into stadiums like Tynecastle.”

Businessman tries to sell idea which, by the end of August, will be redundant as every adult will have had their 2 jags.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

2 hours ago, Dev said:

If this kit is OK'd at Government level how quickly could it be brought in for use at Pyramid matches i.e. on players, club, league and match officials? Would need sponsorship or could SFA or Leagues or Clubs fund it somehow ?
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/new-covid-test-trialled-by-hearts-aims-to-get-fans-back-inside-full-stadiums-sooner-3153656
 
The new BioSure kit works by testing saliva with the outcome confirmed within minutes and verified via a smartphone app.
A negative result would represent a supporter’s passport into crowded events, and Hearts are keen to utilise the method if government officials approve it.
Testing kits can be mass produced through WSA Healthcare, whose subsidiary FOYS Medical sponsor Hamilton Academical’s ground.
WSA’s chief executive Chris McKendrick explained that the method would allow thousands to self-test for the virus and could get stadiums back to capacity next season.
Each test costs between £10 and £13.50, whereas PCR tests currently used by football clubs range from £60 upwards.
“The beauty of the BioSure test is because of its accuracy and price, it’s doable. It has already been CE approved, now we just need government approval,” said McKendrick.


“Utilised properly, this system would ensure everyone around about you has been shown to be virus-free, so you could fill up to capacity again. It’s exciting.
“Our job now is to get out there and speak to various businesses and try and get people back. Some of the lower-league clubs aren’t playing just now and they’ve had to fork out on expensive PCR testing during the week.
“If this is much more affordable and we can help them do it, that’s a big plus.
“I believe some of this could help now. Realistically, if we can get government approval, I don’t see why we can’t be there for the start of next season with confidence.
“We have links with football through sponsoring Hamilton and we have links with other clubs including Ann. So if we can get the support of the clubs and everybody else, hopefully we can push it a bit quicker.”
The app can be used for testing prior to large-scale events like sports matches and concerts. “The PocDoc app will be more useful if you were going to a stadium with 60,000 people or 70,000 at a rugby match at Murrayfield,” added McKendrick.
“That has all your details so there’s no way of cheating it. You do your test, you get our result within 15 minutes, that will be uploaded for you and you get a confirmation.
“Effectively that’s your pass to get into the stadium. We’re now in a confident position and we’re reaching out to people. We can provide it in vast quantities and, if people want it, we can provide it very soon.”
Decisions on who would fund the tests have yet to be made. “If you go to a local place you may get a PCR test for £60-80, if you go to an airport or have to quarantine you’re hearing well over £100,” said McKendrick. “We think it’s going to be between £10-13.50, depending on volume.
“Who pays for that? The fan? The club? Can it be subsidised by government? These are the things we are speaking to people about. There is obviously a big desire to get the economy going and that will only happen if we get people back into stadiums like Tynecastle.”

Businessman tries to sell idea which, by the end of August, will be redundant as every adult will have had their 2 jags.

In the meantime there's no football?

[Burnieman]

In the meantime there's no football?

There's plenty of football. I'm commenting specifically on his plan to allow fans back inside large stadiums.

[Burnieman]

SFA MEETING 3 MARCH 2021

A meeting was held yesterday at which League representatives learned from the SFA resumption of competition will be permitted only if weekly PCR testing takes place, as it stands at present. Given prohibitive costs involved that's simply not a viable option, unfortunately.

The SFA are making representations about the use of Lateral Flow Testing, which is much less costly - meantime however PCR testing must be carried out before the playing of any football is permitted.

A further meeting is scheduled to take place in two weeks' time.

[Auld duffer]

Reading that I just can't see us restarting without some form of testing. Can't see the SG taking the chance of thousands travelling around the regions before June

[Dev]

What's PCR and what's Lateral Flow testing and what's the differences? :

 

Understanding lateral flow antigen testing for people without symptoms - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

How sensitive are the tests?

‘Sensitivity’ refers to the proportion of people with COVID-19 that have a positive test.

When a person has low levels of virus in their system, lateral flow tests are less sensitive than some of the other tests we use, such as PCR tests which we mainly use for people with symptoms.

When levels of virus are at their highest and people are most likely to pass on the disease, lateral flow tests can detect the vast majority of cases.

PCR and lateral flow have different roles to play in controlling the virus, so it isn’t helpful to directly compare them in terms of how sensitive they are:

·        Lateral flow is useful for finding out if a person is infectious now, and able to transmit the virus to others. The level of sensitivity is high enough to detect the vast majority of these cases. Lateral flow testing is less likely to return a positive result outside the infectious window.

·        PCR is useful for confirming a suspected case of coronavirus, where the person is already self-isolating and is showing symptoms. Higher sensitivity of PCR means it can identify genetic material from COVID-19 even after the active infection has passed.

The different levels of sensitivity are therefore appropriate for the ways they are used.

Pilots and evaluations

We have an ongoing programme of piloting and evaluating other potential uses of lateral flow tests in a number of institutions and workplaces, such as Jaguar Land Rover and John Lewis Partnership.

This includes piloting the regular testing of contacts of people who tested positive for coronavirus in order to find more coronavirus cases and break the chains of transmission, as people who have had close contact with a confirmed positive case are at higher risk than normal of having the virus.

A recent study suggests that regular testing contacts of confirmed cases is an effective way to reduce transmission of COVID-19, and could potentially reduce the need for self-isolation for contacts of positive cases

[Dev]

"When levels of virus are at their highest and people are most likely to pass on the disease, lateral flow tests can detect the vast majority of cases."

Would this make lateral flow testing more appropriate for use with football excluding spectators?

[Dunfermline Jag]

3 hours ago, Dev said:

"When levels of virus are at their highest and people are most likely to pass on the disease, lateral flow tests can detect the vast majority of cases."

Would this make lateral flow testing more appropriate for use with football excluding spectators?

It makes Lateral Flow Testing more appropriate all round. LFT tests are used by the NHS to test staff and are the tests being used in schools. PCR tests have been widely - and wrongly -used on folk who don't have symptoms thus inflating the number of "cases."  They are also more expensive than LFT's so the Scottish government insisting that football use them is just perverse.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Dunfermline Jag

[Cyclizine]

3 hours ago, Dunfermline Jag said:

It makes Lateral Flow Testing more appropriate all round. LFT tests are used by the NHS to test staff and are the tests being used in schools. PCR tests have been widely - and wrongly -used on folk who don't have symptoms thus inflating the number of "cases."  They are also more expensive than LFT's so the Scottish government insisting that football use them is just perverse.

LFT misses about 60% of asymptomatic cases in the real world and a nearly a third of those with high viral loads who are the most infectious. The mass use of LFT is not without controversy and arguably they shouldn't be used for mass testing despite the government push.

Why would PCR use inflate the number of cases? It is more sensitive and specific than LFT. A positive in an asymptomatic person is highly likely to be a true positive and a negative a true negative.