JagsCG Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, G51 said: Sure. I just think if I'm McLaughlin I'm pretty pissed off that Gordon gets the start ahead of me today, unless I know I'm playing on Wednesday. I sort of agree with this actually. Gordon, even at his age now, is still the keeper I’d be most confident with but, I could understand frustration with McLaughlin as he has played a fair amount for Rangers this season. Reckon Marshall will be back in goals for Wednesday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said: Genuine question. How much has he actually had to do behind Rangers defence? Which he's not even first choice in any more. If McGregor hadn't retired McLaughlin wouldn't even be in the squad. On the rare occasion we've conceded shots on target, he's been there to save them. Just about all you can ask for really. The metrics are pretty clear on it, and it's hard to see what Gordon could be doing in the Championship to exceed what McLaughlin has done in the Premiership. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, G51 said: On the rare occasion we've conceded shots on target, he's been there to save them. Just about all you can ask for really. The metrics are pretty clear on it, and it's hard to see what Gordon could be doing in the Championship to exceed what McLaughlin has done in the Premiership. I'm not massively interested in "metrics". There are lies, damned lies and statistics as someone very wisely once said. I love a stat me but saving most shots he's faced tells us nothing about the quality of those saves. A 30 yard trundler he picked up without breaking sweat counts as a shot on target the same as a close range reaction stop. I'm not criticising McLaughlin particularly, he's a decent enough keeper, but given a straight choice between him and Craig Gordon I'd pick Gordon every single time and not hesitate to think about it. It's not about what he's doing in the Championship particularly either. We've only played 4 games and Hearts have only played three due to the cup semi final. If Gordon's playing regular first team football, and Alan McGregor is retired, then he's our 2nd best keeper for the time being. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Armstrong is out, will Tierney, McGinn and Christie play 3 games? Possibly their clubs won’t expect it. it might be McBurnie supporting Dykes at the start of the match. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said: I'm not massively interested in "metrics". There are lies, damned lies and statistics as someone very wisely once said. I love a stat me but saving most shots he's faced tells us nothing about the quality of those saves. A 30 yard trundler he picked up without breaking sweat counts as a shot on target the same as a close range reaction stop. I'm not criticising McLaughlin particularly, he's a decent enough keeper, but given a straight choice between him and Craig Gordon I'd pick Gordon every single time and not hesitate to think about it. It's not about what he's doing in the Championship particularly either. We've only played 4 games and Hearts have only played three due to the cup semi final. If Gordon's playing regular first team football, and Alan McGregor is retired, then he's our 2nd best keeper for the time being. The stats do account for the quality of the shot you face. Here's another one framing it as the percentage of shots you'd be expected to save: Look, we'll see what happens on Wednesday, but the case for Gordon doesn't appear to be based on anything other than one save in the cup semi and reputation. Which, given he's nearly 38, seems like a dangerous thing to base your case on! We should probably pick our keepers based on what they're doing now, IMO! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, G51 said: The stats do account for the quality of the shot you face. Here's another one framing it as the percentage of shots you'd be expected to save: Look, we'll see what happens on Wednesday, but the case for Gordon doesn't appear to be based on anything other than one save in the cup semi and reputation. Which, given he's nearly 38, seems like a dangerous thing to base your case on! We should probably pick our keepers based on what they're doing now, IMO! That's a different stat you've wheeled out there though. Not the two you listed initially. I'd concede to a large extent I'm basing my assessment of Craig Gordon on his reputation, though that reputation was well gained over 15 years + in the senior game. I'm not particularly basing it on the cup semi final save (I didn't see it "live" anyway). I'm not especially bothered by his age either. He's not that old for a keeper and he remains younger than Allan McGregor. Are you also writing him off? Gordon's not even in these stats (because he's not playing in the Premier presumably). I haven't seen anywhere near enough of McLaughlin this season to make any rational judgement on the fairness of that stat. As a Rangers fan I guess you are much better placed than me. Maybe I am guilty of under-rating him and over-rating Gordon but I don't believe for a second that Steve Clarke put Gordon in today because he's already agreed to play McLaughlin on Wednesday. He's done so because he thinks Gordon is the better keeper. I think you know this too even if you didn't agree with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy86 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Marshall/McLaughlin O'Donnell Considine Cooper Gallagher Taylor/Tierney/Roberston McGinn Jack Christie Griffith Dykes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Let’s get the win and top the section. Hopefully revert back to the team that won in Serbia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DanMc99 said: well im willing to trust the goals will come So am I if Dykes starts for us , but what if he is unavailable ? Edited November 15, 2020 by ewan14 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 hours ago, nessies long lost ghost said: A disappointing score but a decent performance Dykes will be back on Wednesday Not sure if Robertson will still be injured I reckon same team that started against Serbia should play Marshall O'Donnell, McTominay, Gallagher, Tierney, Robertson McGregor Jack, McGinn Dykes Christie If Robertson is injured Tierney moves to LWB and McKenna takes Tierney's place We can do it Seconded -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 hour ago, ropy said: Armstrong is out, will Tierney, McGinn and Christie play 3 games? Possibly their clubs won’t expect it. it might be McBurnie supporting Dykes at the start of the match. Yes Tough No 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 hours ago, G51 said: Gordon's fine, but he wasn't even getting in the squad recently and Celtic patched him in favour of Scott Bain. The only thing he's done of note since was that nice little save he had in the SC semi. He wasn't in the squad because he wasn't playing regularly. Now he is playing regularly. Celtic didn't at any point seriously prefer Bain to Gordon - when both were at the club Gordon was generally picked ahead of him. They kept Bain in the summer because he was willing to hang around to be second choice while Gordon wasn't. 2 hours ago, G51 said: Sure. I just think if I'm McLaughlin I'm pretty pissed off that Gordon gets the start ahead of me today, unless I know I'm playing on Wednesday. McLaughlin's played regularly as part of a defence on course for a record-setting pace in the Premiership, and the only guy keeping advanced metrics for the league (that I'm aware of) has him as the best keeper in the league this season alongside Alnwick and McGregor. It's difficult to imagine Gordon is exceeding that kind of performance even if he is playing weaker teams every week. All of this is irrelevant, given that McLaughlin objectively isn't a good goalkeeper as Gordon and hasn't had anything like as good a career. You can ask Hearts, Sunderland and Scotland supporters which one they'd rather have and they'd all give you the same answer. There's a reason McGregor has come back into the Rangers team for the big games this season and McLaughlin has been left scrambling around for minutes against Ross County and Hamilton. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Czechs 1 nil up already 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Ok, we won't get any favours from anyone, completely in our own hands, win and we top group 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC92 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, G51 said: Look, we'll see what happens on Wednesday, but the case for Gordon doesn't appear to be based on anything other than one save in the cup semi and reputation. Which, given he's nearly 38, seems like a dangerous thing to base your case on! We should probably pick our keepers based on what they're doing now, IMO! What's happening now is Gordon is playing every week, putting in very good performances and making great saves. Jon McLaughlin is playing the odd game at home to relegation fodder when McGregor is rested. The stuff about him only making one good save against Hibs this season is just ignorance on your part, because he's already made quite a few good saves this season and is showing no signs of decline. I like McLaughlin as a player, he's a very decent keeper and a good option, but he's not on the same level as Gordon. Edited November 15, 2020 by DC92 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMc99 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 israel not threatened at all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, DanMc99 said: israel not threatened at all They never do. Its usually screamers out of nowhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank conner Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Its our own fault for taking it to easy today drop too many players nothing to do with being tired just trying to be to smart. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Wild guess... .............................................Marshall ...............McTominay - Gallagher - Cooper/McKenna ...O'Donnell..................................................................Tierney/Robertson ............................Jack...............................McGregor ............Christie.................................................................Burke ................................................Dykes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 1 hour ago, ewan14 said: So am I if Dykes starts for us , but what if he is unavailable ? If he's unavailable, then he won't start 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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